This is presented in an extremely simplistic way by the Mail, and although the protests might have been in poor taste, and aimed at the wrong people (the government is more to blame), these people live in a democracy and are free to say what they like, regardless of whether we like it.
I expect the soldiers were big enough and tough enough to cope with it. In fact, those supporting the soldiers had to be restrained by the police for being extremely aggressive towards the Muslim protestors – oddly enough, the Mail glossed over that. They also glossed over whether it’s in poor taste to stage a parade like this in an area with a large Muslim population.
Oh lord, stuff like this with these idiots protesting is manna from heaven to the Mail. I imagine there’ll be a not so subtle ‘these people protesting = the views of all Muslims’ insinuation amongst it all too. I mean look, they have beards and everything!
Absolutely, Charlie – the Mail accuses them of inciting hatred, but the Mail is doing that far more effectively by giving them their fifteen minutes of fame. If it was ignored by the media, the whole thing would have been forgotten and no lasting damage would be done to anyone.
Radical jihadists they may be, but at least they are assimilating to our way of life by using their right to freedom of speech. Meanwhile, the Mail is more scared of a bunch of beardy nutters with placards than the creeping totalitarianism that’s been implemented because of the fear of beardy nutters.
These protestors are idiots (surely if you’re going to protest, the government are the ones who started this Iraq mess, so blame them).
The Daily Mail (and the rest of the press who have salivated over this) are idiots as they’ll use it to push their ‘Muslims = people who hate Britain and especially our noble army’ line of thinking. GMTV were going nuts over it, and I can only imagine what nauseating texts/emails they were going to read out about it.
And it’s true, how many people were in this protest mob anyway?
The protestors are arseholes. We had the same in Belfast with Sinn Fein albiet on on different scale and from a different point of view (but we did have some Marxist nutters)
It is their democratic right to protest however and the Mail is all for freedom of speech. That doesn’t mean you can’t say the protest is wrong however. The justice minister is right that bringing these bastards out into the open makes us all see what utter wankers they are.
Some of the comments on the Mail site are just disgusting however. Someone wrote, “Well Free Speech is what the Mail wanted.” and got 5000 down arrows. This just adds to the papers narrative of “all muslims are intolerant,”
I’m expecting one of our regular token right wingers to turn up at some point today and ramble on about how intolerant all muslims are and how they all want to kill us.
“They also glossed over whether it’s in poor taste to stage a parade like this in an area with a large Muslim population.”
I completely disagree. Some Muslims may not like the parade but they’re not going to take the same action as this. I think its wrong to assume that Muslims would be offended by the parade.
Pretty much all been said, to be honest mind you I bet there would of been general indifference to this if they hadn’t turned up.
You see them on Spotlight quite a bit and the public are always asked they seem to be about 90% saying oh well they should have a parade, and then they are asked whether they would turn up and they say probably not.
I cannot believe this was ever allowed to happen? Us English have been told for the last 30 years to be tolerant to other people, being a good Christian this is what we did, but isn’t it about time something was done about this shit, how DARE they protests to OUR soldiers in our country?? if they don’t like it go back to it is wherever they came from.. I am so sick and tired of turning the other cheek, and why don’t the women show their faces so we all now the enemy in our midst???
Hi Tilly.
“I cannot believe this was ever allowed to happen? ”
It was “allowed” to happen, because that’s what have here in the UK – freedom of speech, freedom to express your opinion, freedom to protest if you want to. Don’t you like that?
“Us English ”
Speak for yourself, Tilly – I’m Scottish, myself.
“how DARE they protests to OUR soldiers in our country?? ”
See above, Tilly. We ain’t North Korea.
“if they don’t like it go back to it is wherever they came from.. ”
To erm, Luton?
Although this story is splashed on the front pages of the Mail and Express, the Times gave the story its true worth by reporting it in a very small article on the inside page. with no pictures. That’s all it deserved. Looking at film of this incident on the BBC it looks as though no more than a dozen people were involved. So nothing to see , move along please.
Soldiers = Butchers of Basra? So what the fuck were you doing beardy when Saddam was busy murdering your fellow Muslims by the thousand? Don’t remember any Muslims in this country giving much of a fuck then.
You can see why the Mail gets so many readers. Just looking at those fucking moronic protesters (although from a totally different demographic) just shows how easily susceptible to ridiculous levels of doublethink the average human is.
Sorry for the triple post, but the REAL ‘Butchers of Basra’ would be the Sunni terror squads and the Shia militias. How many protests do you see against them by UK Muslims?
…or did I miss the news reports where UK troops regularly sent suicide bombers against Muslim marketplaces, voters and police recruits? Where are the protests against the Mahdi Army or Al-Queda in Iraq? Or is OK to ‘butcher’ Muslims as long as you’re a Muslim too?
Over 95% of Muslims killed in Iraq have been by Muslims. Bunch of doublethinking, ignorant, hypocritical twats.
I’m against anything that spreads hatred this and the no platform approach, regardless of the BNP on one such manifesto pledge which is aimed at Homosexuality.
“We the BNP are for homosexuality but against the expression of it in the open”, another paragraph of the manifesto suggests they are for freedom of expression?
How can you possibly be both, and how many times in my life have I personally seen homosexuality expressed openly bar in the gay community itself, yeah about 3 or 4 times.
I didn’t see the British and American governments caring much about Saddam or anything going on in Iraq either until their precious oil supplies were threatened in the early 90s.
Charlie – I agree, I’m not supporting or defending that, but how does one side being hypocritical negate the other? It doesn’t. Fair point that the US/UK position may be contradictory, but it doesn’t change the fact that the Muslim one is.
The fact is if they cared about Muslim’s being killed in Iraq you’d think they have raised a few placards during the Iran-Iraq war where millions of them died or the tens of thousands of Shia’s executed during Saddam’s reign. But they didn’t. Because nobody told them to be angry that time.
Well I for one applaud the ‘Mail’ for giving this story front-page coverage. People need to know the monsters who have risen up in our midst. I deeply regret two things…1. that Britain ever got mixed up in Bush’s Iraq adventure 2. that thanks to our ‘liberal’ immigration policies the followers of the Arabian prophet ever became established in our midst.
‘But these were extremists’ I hear most of you saying. ‘Moderate’ Islam, I would reply, is the Trojan Horse by means of which these people are moving deeper and deeper into British society. I abominate the Islamic religion for many reasons, but for two above all. Firstly, Mahomet sought to get the Jews of Arabia to bow the knee to him as a prophet; but the Jews have their own relationship with God which the goyim (that includes me) have no right to interfere with. Secondly, Mahomet proclaimed himself the last of the prophets. No man has the right to second-guess the divine providence in such a way. Down with Mahomet and his legacy!
PS And nothing would give me more pleasure than to see the Jews restore their Holy Temple upon its ancient site in Jerusalem, something I think they should have done forty years ago.
Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing isn’t it? It means, we can say anything we want, no matter what the subject without fear of prosecution from authorities for saying it. Its a shame that people can say things that you dont like, but thats the only catch isn’t it?
Also, glad to see the Pro-Israeli lobby has finally made it to Mailwatch. I thought we were missing at least one set of sockpuppets since the BNP and Christians seemed to have made their way here already. Now if only we could get the Scientologists to join in the fun, we would really be cooking (Or at least looking like the Guardians comment sections. Now there is a Warzone).
If you want to be taken seriously, learn to spell at greater than the level of a 4-year-old. Seriously, what is it with the far right and an inability to spell?
Let’s be honest, the free speech debate is all well and good but it’s avoiding the point; the DM and their ilk are, when it really comes down to it, not democrats.
They loved Hitler 60yrs ago because a fascist British (but England-centric) nationalist state is their wet-dream.
Though those protesters are idiots, I would like to register my abhorrence to military personnel being paraded around at all, unless it was in the genuine defence of the country.
As Orwell says in “England Your England,” the sign of a good liberal society (he doesn’t say liberal though) is when military uniforms aren’t worn in public. I happen to agree, mainly because the military shouldn’t assume support, and civilians shouldn’t be expected to support it. To suggest otherwise is to pander to nationalism and the myth of natural national unity.
An example is the parade/protest in Belfast. The RIR were paraded through a city where half the inhabitants would be quite unsupportatative of the army. The usual response is to say, “well they fought for us, even if we didn’t agree with the war they put their lives on the line.” and that is true, but to the nationalist community, and, i daresay, the muslim community in Luton, the British Army is not at all a defender of their interests.
I agree with you Pope, and I’m not promoting the parading of troops or the right to protest, just the (separate issue) of the nature of hypocrisy of the Muslim protesters. If they really wanted to save Muslim lives they should be protesting against Al-Qaeda who are a much bigger killer of fellow Muslims in Iraq than anyone else, but they won’t, because to them it’s OK for Muslims to kill each other, so it isn’t a moral issue but a racist one they have.
How many of would justify WW2?
How many of you would justify the NATO bombing of Serbia?
How many of you would justify decades of British tyranny in the Six Counties?
WW2 was justified. Only the most vociferous anti-semites and neo-nazis argue otherwise. Which are you?
British ‘tyranny’ in the Six Counties was (at least in the modern era) caused as a response to indiscriminate terrorists trying to undermine a democratic regime, where like it or not, the majority of the population then and now, wanted to be part of the UK.
By your last comment, I’m guessing you’re a republican, so let me ask you this? If Britain hadn’t fought the Nazis, how do you think Ireland would have fared if we hadn’t fought and had been inevitably invaded? Think Uncle Adolph would have spared your country from Fascism? Or maybe that’s exactly what you want, which makes your ‘tyranny’ argument all the more pathetic, especially seeing as Ireland’s President and Prime Minister sent a telegram of condolence to Germany on the occasion of Hitler’s death…
I’d also like to point out in relation to ‘British Tyranny’ that even though Britain was strongly advised repeatedly by it’s allies to invade Ireland during WW2 due to it being a hotbed of Nazi spies, the IRA collaborating with the Nazis and it’s neutrality allowed U-Boats to operate unhindered in the Atlantic, thereby starving Britain almost to death, at no stage was it seriously entertained, out of respect for Ireland’s sovereignty, and in actuality kept plans and troops available to liberate Ireland if it was invaded.
De Valera’s approach to WW2 was and is a moral disgrace.
The protests against soldiers were tasteless, disrespectful and misplaced. If they want to protest at Westminster, feel free to do so.
The typical Islamophobic and Xenophobic reaction was just as bad. If I’m being honest, I think the police should have stopped the protest from taking place in the interests of community relations. As if we Muslims needed to be given any more bad press.
I like you classic ad hominem attack, suggesting that because I don’t fully subscribe to the accepted narrative, I must be a “neo-Nazi” and/or “anti-Semite”. Pathetic.
British troops were sent into the North to protect Catholics from Protestant murder gangs (The bloodiest day in the last 40 years (May 17th 1974) was down to Loyalist paramilitaries; 33 people were killed over the course of 2 bombings, 1 in Monaghan, 1 in Dublin). The British troops responded by viciously murdering 13 unarmed Catholics, seven of whom were minors. Moreover, British forces colluded with the Loyalist paramilitaries – the same paramilitaries who were responsible for killing more civilians than the IRA.
I notice you did not bother to respond to the issue regarding the murder of Serb men, women, and children, as supported by vermin like the Lib Dems.
Totally agree with you Steven (the triple post). These idiots don’t seem to realise that the true butchers are the suicide bombers & car bombers that the troops are trying to stop. God knows how many more Iraqis may have died if the soldiers wern’t there. The REASONS they were sent in the first is another matter entirely.
These folk have the right to protest, but they have done it in such a stupid way that it will only work against them by firing up the Mail & its hypocritical readership and making life even more difficult for the people they think they are standing up for.
Stupid, stupid,stupid extreamists. If your so concerned about innocent Muslims in Iraq them why don’t you piss off over there and see the truth for yourselves?
…neither of which I defended, and if you recall I didn’t ascribe any political leaning to the terrorists either – both Unionist and Republicans are scum. In any case, they may have come to stop the Unionist murderers, but they definitely stayed due to the Republican murders.
My comment about respecting the self determination of the populace is a side issue, and one many republicans forget when using such terms as ‘tyranny’ when ironically it’s them who wish to enforce their will on people who largely do not wish to follow it 0 the very definition of tyranny. If the day ever comes where even 50.000000001% of people in NI wish unification, I’d support it wholeheartedly. Until then, shut the fuck up about ‘tyranny’ when it’s clearly the will of the majority, even if you can’t handle the reality of it. I see however you can’t defend Ireland’s role in WW2 or your reasoning for claiming support of it was immoral.
If Britain hadn’t fought, Ireland would have been fucked. Up the arse. And not even bought flowers first. Remember Hitler thought the English were Aryans and was shocked that we fought against them. He envisioned an alliance where in partnership Britain would have Africa and most of Asia, with Germany controlling Europe and Russia. The Celtic Irish would not have fared so well under a Nazi regime, so be fucking grateful there existed some bullwark. Britain fought for incredibly decent moral grounds and arguably would have had a much easier time of it if they appeased Germany to the detriment of the entire planet and it’s history (no D-Day or resulting VE or arguably even Atom Bomb before Germany without an Allied Britain)
Mr Morden – That’s my point exactly. Why they went over there is another reason and another moral issue entirely, but their actions over there are to PREVENT Muslim butchery, of which not a single Muslim state has offered to send troops to assist with.
DailyFail –
Could you please not refer to me (a christian) as a sock puppet or on the same pedalstal as the disgusting BNP and the ignorent pro-Israel lobby. Their are moderate christians as their are moderate muslims.
…and apologies for the Irish detour. I’m not anti-Irish or have any opinion on the NI issue other than respecting the will of the majority of the population, but went into this detour purely to piss off Gordon Clown (as it’s clearly his hot button issue) and show off his ignorance and hypocrisy, and not to denigrate and Irish people or their contribution to the war, where many Irish fought and contributed despite the moral and intellectual failure of the political elite to grasp the seriousness of the situation.
All countries have periods of ignorance and tyranny in their history, Ireland included. This doesn’t excuse them, but neither does it give credence to pissing all over the nobler periods either or excuse batshit insane and racist sentiments, as the aptly named Clown has expressed about Black people in the Express topic.
..also as I’ve probably come across as very right wing here, I must say I realise (as Mr Morden rightly says) there are moderate Muslims too who are anti-war. I just don’t believe these in the picture are, and are probably very pro war when it comes to Hamas and the like.
KHAAAAAN, the congenital idiot dos’nt know you were refering to ”isn’t” as a grammatical error and not a spelling mistake. However, DailyFails meaning is perfectly clear to any normal person reading the post by putting it into context.
DailyFail, don’t pay any attention to the congenital idiot Steven, he’s a psychological fetish about spelling. His own name should be spelt ”wee prick”.
This is pure primeval. On the one side you have scary Asians with beards, on the other smart white soldiers. Essential the mail is shouting at you: ONE OR THE OTHER! WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON!
Its pure misleading reporting, look at Shafiq’s post: is that attitude from Muslims (even though it is expressed, and probably by the majority of Muslims) ever going to make it to the front page of the mail? They could have just as easily put Muslims applauding and supporting the soldiers or the British military destroying some part of Iraq, with Muslims cowering and crying.
I do wonder if there is any merit in somebody who uses profanities and calls people “scum”…
“If the day ever comes where even 50.000000001% of people in NI wish unification, I’d support it wholeheartedly.”
This is a problematic piece of your argument – Irish unification involves not just the will of the people of the North, but the people of the Republic also. The majority of people on the island of Ireland want a reunion.
“Until then, shut the fuck up about ‘tyranny’ when it’s clearly the will of the majority, even if you can’t handle the reality of it.”
Ignoring your childish remarks, it appears that it is you who cannot handle the reality.
“I see however you can’t defend Ireland’s role in WW2 or your reasoning for claiming support of it was immoral.”
So I am in the wrong because I think it’s wrong that circa 50m were killed in a war? Interesting.
“but went into this detour purely to piss off Gordon Clown (as it’s clearly his hot button issue) and show off his ignorance and hypocrisy…”
You simply aren’t intelligent enough to piss me off, Steven.
You are the one who is ignorant of the troubles in Ireland.
Mr Mordon — Freedom of speech means I can compare whoever I like, to whomever I like. Remember that part about saying things people don’t like? There we have it.
Also, I had you tagged as a sycophantic Daily Mail Reader sockpuppet, but that’s obviously my mistake. Christian sycophantic Daily Mail reader sockpuppet it is then.
“Mr Mordon — Freedom of speech means I can compare whoever I like, to whomever I like. Remember that part about saying things people don’t like? There we have it.”
he asked very politely for you to tone down your wording because of the impression it gave, freedom of speach means you can do that as well.
please, if you would be so kind, in future refrain from abusing the right of free speech to justify being a bit of a knob towards someone. thank you.
Eek we’ve entered the realms of the Irish Question.
I won’t shite on about it but, for the record: ”terrorists” is a fairly broad term, and you have to question what would send a community to rally around such ”terrorists.” That isn’t my main gripe with what Steven said though, its the WWII angle…
1. Very small elements of the IRA colluded with the Nazis. Just like in WWI, there was a split within the movement, only this time the split favoured the British angle even more.
2. Devalera remained neutral in order to protect Ireland’s sovereignty. It was only independent for 18 years at the outbreak! As late as 1938 British soldiers had controlled Irish ports and he wasn’t going to let them back in on a matter of principle that would, you’ll have to understand, been felt as strong by Dev as the principle to oppose the Nazis was felt by those in more established nations.
In fact, a island such as Ireland, with such a small population, wouldve been a hinderence to the allies, as they wouldve needed to place a great many thousand soldiers to protect the coastline.
3. ‘Hotbed’ of German spies is also laughable. It is well known that German military personnel and British who landed/crashed/crossed the border into Ireland for whatever reason received very different treatment. It should also be noted that many IRA members were hung for gun-running during this time.
Moreover, I’d like to add that none of this has anything to do with anything, and would question why Steven resorted to insulting an entire nation in reaction to Gordon Clown’s rather immature comments.
As someone from Northern Ireland, I’m rather bemused with the discussion over the Republic. It happened like 60 years ago lol! In NI we always regard the Republic as our rather cooky, slightly wacky cousins, can’t imagine anyone actually caring about WW2. Dev is just some guy my granda saw on his honeymoon to Dublin. (Northern Ireland is of course the rather violent, slightly annoying Cousin to the Republic. The type that’s always drunk and just annoys everyone at your grandmothers funeral)
Unless this is a board populated by history PhDs I would suggest staying away from them and focusing on the here and now.
Protesters = a bit dumb. I doubt the soldiers said “great theres a war on- a chance to kill some muslims!”
at the end of the day they don’t hold views representative of the entire muslim community so anyone (DM readers im adressing here) deciding their actions justify institutionalised racism are just as dumb.
lol 15 people protested, not totally ignorant protest since their views on the war are held but many people, protests like this have happened before especially in the US with troops and that’s a patriotic country the press their hardly mentioned them, and the difference in this case they happen to be Muslim and its a headline story, go figure
well we know the daily mail as being lieing, deceitful and hypocritical newspaper that spreads hate and fear through its lies and deceit like the sun, express and the daily telegraph [more professional] these corporate newspapers know the way to sell stories is to raise fears about some community that’s cultural practices seem a bit alien to most white UK population since they cant officially be racist the inhumane bigotry which is combined with racial suggestions because of the logical conclusion to the assumptions.
I know you can hold anti-immigrant views and even racist but this Islamaphovia is stupid, religious Muslims make up a less then a third of Muslims and a tiny minority of them very tiny have any sort of empathy against Britain really because of its foreign policy
“If the day ever comes where even 50.000000001% of people in NI wish unification, I’d support it wholeheartedly.”
The Unionists were offered 9 counties to form Northern Ireland – they only took 6, to ensure a Protestant majority. i.e. the border were gerrymandered so that this kind of argument could me made forever more…
If one sincerely belives that the Iraq War was illegal, for which a case can be made…
If one beleives that ‘I was only following orders’ ceased to be an acceptable legal defense in Nurenburg, which is likely to be a less controversial assertion…
Then actually reminding squaddies that they’re complicit in war crimes might be entirely legitimate, indeed the duty of any democrat.
With the same reasoning, Saddam should’ve been tried by an International Court for the far larger war crimes he committed both against Iran and Kuwait. It could, perhaps, be noted that Iran would’ve likely brought evidence that showed where Saddam got all his help and how much certain coUntrieS knew About said war crimes.
So instead he went to an Iraqi Court on a very specific charge and was hanged within a month of being charged.
I do rather subscribe to a simplistic, some would suggest racist, idea of what to expect from nations.
Britain is plainly the mother of democracy, best place to live and most moral nation. So when it gets it wrong, it’s very bad.
Israel and the USA are new nations that haven’t quite worked things out, despite generally having sound intentions. So when they get things wrong, it’s a bit sad.
North Korea, Iraq (before and after) and the Sudan and batshit crazy. What the Hell do you expect?
This is presented in an extremely simplistic way by the Mail, and although the protests might have been in poor taste, and aimed at the wrong people (the government is more to blame), these people live in a democracy and are free to say what they like, regardless of whether we like it.
I expect the soldiers were big enough and tough enough to cope with it. In fact, those supporting the soldiers had to be restrained by the police for being extremely aggressive towards the Muslim protestors – oddly enough, the Mail glossed over that. They also glossed over whether it’s in poor taste to stage a parade like this in an area with a large Muslim population.
Yuck.
Oh lord, stuff like this with these idiots protesting is manna from heaven to the Mail. I imagine there’ll be a not so subtle ‘these people protesting = the views of all Muslims’ insinuation amongst it all too. I mean look, they have beards and everything!
Absolutely, Charlie – the Mail accuses them of inciting hatred, but the Mail is doing that far more effectively by giving them their fifteen minutes of fame. If it was ignored by the media, the whole thing would have been forgotten and no lasting damage would be done to anyone.
How big was this “mob”? According to the Guardian report, “about a dozen”. Hardly front-page news, I’d have thought.
Radical jihadists they may be, but at least they are assimilating to our way of life by using their right to freedom of speech. Meanwhile, the Mail is more scared of a bunch of beardy nutters with placards than the creeping totalitarianism that’s been implemented because of the fear of beardy nutters.
Forehead, meet table.
I’ll neatly summarise:
These protestors are idiots (surely if you’re going to protest, the government are the ones who started this Iraq mess, so blame them).
The Daily Mail (and the rest of the press who have salivated over this) are idiots as they’ll use it to push their ‘Muslims = people who hate Britain and especially our noble army’ line of thinking. GMTV were going nuts over it, and I can only imagine what nauseating texts/emails they were going to read out about it.
And it’s true, how many people were in this protest mob anyway?
Looks like about four or five people – hardly a mob in any sense of the word, more a small group of lunatics using it to push their own agenda
The protestors are arseholes. We had the same in Belfast with Sinn Fein albiet on on different scale and from a different point of view (but we did have some Marxist nutters)
It is their democratic right to protest however and the Mail is all for freedom of speech. That doesn’t mean you can’t say the protest is wrong however. The justice minister is right that bringing these bastards out into the open makes us all see what utter wankers they are.
Some of the comments on the Mail site are just disgusting however. Someone wrote, “Well Free Speech is what the Mail wanted.” and got 5000 down arrows. This just adds to the papers narrative of “all muslims are intolerant,”
I’m expecting one of our regular token right wingers to turn up at some point today and ramble on about how intolerant all muslims are and how they all want to kill us.
“They also glossed over whether it’s in poor taste to stage a parade like this in an area with a large Muslim population.”
I completely disagree. Some Muslims may not like the parade but they’re not going to take the same action as this. I think its wrong to assume that Muslims would be offended by the parade.
I do wonder why the parade was held in Luton though. It was an East Anglia regiment.
Very good of the protestors to make themselves known in public. I’m sure the security services noted the names present.
Pretty much all been said, to be honest mind you I bet there would of been general indifference to this if they hadn’t turned up.
You see them on Spotlight quite a bit and the public are always asked they seem to be about 90% saying oh well they should have a parade, and then they are asked whether they would turn up and they say probably not.
I cannot believe this was ever allowed to happen? Us English have been told for the last 30 years to be tolerant to other people, being a good Christian this is what we did, but isn’t it about time something was done about this shit, how DARE they protests to OUR soldiers in our country?? if they don’t like it go back to it is wherever they came from.. I am so sick and tired of turning the other cheek, and why don’t the women show their faces so we all now the enemy in our midst???
Hi Tilly.
“I cannot believe this was ever allowed to happen? ”
It was “allowed” to happen, because that’s what have here in the UK – freedom of speech, freedom to express your opinion, freedom to protest if you want to. Don’t you like that?
“Us English ”
Speak for yourself, Tilly – I’m Scottish, myself.
“how DARE they protests to OUR soldiers in our country?? ”
See above, Tilly. We ain’t North Korea.
“if they don’t like it go back to it is wherever they came from.. ”
To erm, Luton?
Tilly:
Joking, of course.
If you’re not, then kindly stop sending such asinine drivel in as comments.
Allowing these Muslims their right to practice free speech? It’s just like Nineteen Eighty Four.
I should just point out that was meant to be sarcastic!
I agree with most of what has been said. Although I don’t agree with the protestors unfortunately I agree with the right to protest peacefully.
Mind you sending someone back to Luton is a threat.
John Hegley’s from Luton, so it can’t be all bad.
The Mail is all for free speech as long they agree with what you have to say.
Although this story is splashed on the front pages of the Mail and Express, the Times gave the story its true worth by reporting it in a very small article on the inside page. with no pictures. That’s all it deserved. Looking at film of this incident on the BBC it looks as though no more than a dozen people were involved. So nothing to see , move along please.
Soldiers = Butchers of Basra? So what the fuck were you doing beardy when Saddam was busy murdering your fellow Muslims by the thousand? Don’t remember any Muslims in this country giving much of a fuck then.
Hypocrites, the lot of them.
You can see why the Mail gets so many readers. Just looking at those fucking moronic protesters (although from a totally different demographic) just shows how easily susceptible to ridiculous levels of doublethink the average human is.
Sorry for the triple post, but the REAL ‘Butchers of Basra’ would be the Sunni terror squads and the Shia militias. How many protests do you see against them by UK Muslims?
…or did I miss the news reports where UK troops regularly sent suicide bombers against Muslim marketplaces, voters and police recruits? Where are the protests against the Mahdi Army or Al-Queda in Iraq? Or is OK to ‘butcher’ Muslims as long as you’re a Muslim too?
Over 95% of Muslims killed in Iraq have been by Muslims. Bunch of doublethinking, ignorant, hypocritical twats.
I wonder if the people who nobly believe in free speech for Muslims also endorse the ‘No Platform’ approach in relation to the BNP…
@Gordon Clown (My sides are splitting mate…)
I’m against anything that spreads hatred this and the no platform approach, regardless of the BNP on one such manifesto pledge which is aimed at Homosexuality.
“We the BNP are for homosexuality but against the expression of it in the open”, another paragraph of the manifesto suggests they are for freedom of expression?
How can you possibly be both, and how many times in my life have I personally seen homosexuality expressed openly bar in the gay community itself, yeah about 3 or 4 times.
About time people grew up isn’t it.
Steven, three good, well observed posts.
Steven:
I didn’t see the British and American governments caring much about Saddam or anything going on in Iraq either until their precious oil supplies were threatened in the early 90s.
Charlie – I agree, I’m not supporting or defending that, but how does one side being hypocritical negate the other? It doesn’t. Fair point that the US/UK position may be contradictory, but it doesn’t change the fact that the Muslim one is.
The fact is if they cared about Muslim’s being killed in Iraq you’d think they have raised a few placards during the Iran-Iraq war where millions of them died or the tens of thousands of Shia’s executed during Saddam’s reign. But they didn’t. Because nobody told them to be angry that time.
Well I for one applaud the ‘Mail’ for giving this story front-page coverage. People need to know the monsters who have risen up in our midst. I deeply regret two things…1. that Britain ever got mixed up in Bush’s Iraq adventure 2. that thanks to our ‘liberal’ immigration policies the followers of the Arabian prophet ever became established in our midst.
‘But these were extremists’ I hear most of you saying. ‘Moderate’ Islam, I would reply, is the Trojan Horse by means of which these people are moving deeper and deeper into British society. I abominate the Islamic religion for many reasons, but for two above all. Firstly, Mahomet sought to get the Jews of Arabia to bow the knee to him as a prophet; but the Jews have their own relationship with God which the goyim (that includes me) have no right to interfere with. Secondly, Mahomet proclaimed himself the last of the prophets. No man has the right to second-guess the divine providence in such a way. Down with Mahomet and his legacy!
PS And nothing would give me more pleasure than to see the Jews restore their Holy Temple upon its ancient site in Jerusalem, something I think they should have done forty years ago.
Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing isn’t it? It means, we can say anything we want, no matter what the subject without fear of prosecution from authorities for saying it. Its a shame that people can say things that you dont like, but thats the only catch isn’t it?
Also, glad to see the Pro-Israeli lobby has finally made it to Mailwatch. I thought we were missing at least one set of sockpuppets since the BNP and Christians seemed to have made their way here already. Now if only we could get the Scientologists to join in the fun, we would really be cooking (Or at least looking like the Guardians comment sections. Now there is a Warzone).
@daveyp.
If you want to be taken seriously, learn to spell at greater than the level of a 4-year-old. Seriously, what is it with the far right and an inability to spell?
KHAAAAAN – Actually he did spell everything correctly there… Did you read it?
I think you’re getting him confused with Scothmist.
Ah, I was right wasnt I? DavyP-Our token Mailer/Right Winger.
Davy P, the 1920s called, they want their opinions back.
Let’s be honest, the free speech debate is all well and good but it’s avoiding the point; the DM and their ilk are, when it really comes down to it, not democrats.
They loved Hitler 60yrs ago because a fascist British (but England-centric) nationalist state is their wet-dream.
Clearly it still is.
Sarah @ 11:39
‘Nail’ and ‘Head’ spring to mind.
Though those protesters are idiots, I would like to register my abhorrence to military personnel being paraded around at all, unless it was in the genuine defence of the country.
As Orwell says in “England Your England,” the sign of a good liberal society (he doesn’t say liberal though) is when military uniforms aren’t worn in public. I happen to agree, mainly because the military shouldn’t assume support, and civilians shouldn’t be expected to support it. To suggest otherwise is to pander to nationalism and the myth of natural national unity.
sorry for the dp.
An example is the parade/protest in Belfast. The RIR were paraded through a city where half the inhabitants would be quite unsupportatative of the army. The usual response is to say, “well they fought for us, even if we didn’t agree with the war they put their lives on the line.” and that is true, but to the nationalist community, and, i daresay, the muslim community in Luton, the British Army is not at all a defender of their interests.
I agree with you Pope, and I’m not promoting the parading of troops or the right to protest, just the (separate issue) of the nature of hypocrisy of the Muslim protesters. If they really wanted to save Muslim lives they should be protesting against Al-Qaeda who are a much bigger killer of fellow Muslims in Iraq than anyone else, but they won’t, because to them it’s OK for Muslims to kill each other, so it isn’t a moral issue but a racist one they have.
The hypocrisy on this board is disgusting.
How many of would justify WW2?
How many of you would justify the NATO bombing of Serbia?
How many of you would justify decades of British tyranny in the Six Counties?
Gordon Clown:
WW2 was justified. Only the most vociferous anti-semites and neo-nazis argue otherwise. Which are you?
British ‘tyranny’ in the Six Counties was (at least in the modern era) caused as a response to indiscriminate terrorists trying to undermine a democratic regime, where like it or not, the majority of the population then and now, wanted to be part of the UK.
By your last comment, I’m guessing you’re a republican, so let me ask you this? If Britain hadn’t fought the Nazis, how do you think Ireland would have fared if we hadn’t fought and had been inevitably invaded? Think Uncle Adolph would have spared your country from Fascism? Or maybe that’s exactly what you want, which makes your ‘tyranny’ argument all the more pathetic, especially seeing as Ireland’s President and Prime Minister sent a telegram of condolence to Germany on the occasion of Hitler’s death…
I’d also like to point out in relation to ‘British Tyranny’ that even though Britain was strongly advised repeatedly by it’s allies to invade Ireland during WW2 due to it being a hotbed of Nazi spies, the IRA collaborating with the Nazis and it’s neutrality allowed U-Boats to operate unhindered in the Atlantic, thereby starving Britain almost to death, at no stage was it seriously entertained, out of respect for Ireland’s sovereignty, and in actuality kept plans and troops available to liberate Ireland if it was invaded.
De Valera’s approach to WW2 was and is a moral disgrace.
The protests against soldiers were tasteless, disrespectful and misplaced. If they want to protest at Westminster, feel free to do so.
The typical Islamophobic and Xenophobic reaction was just as bad. If I’m being honest, I think the police should have stopped the protest from taking place in the interests of community relations. As if we Muslims needed to be given any more bad press.
I like you classic ad hominem attack, suggesting that because I don’t fully subscribe to the accepted narrative, I must be a “neo-Nazi” and/or “anti-Semite”. Pathetic.
British troops were sent into the North to protect Catholics from Protestant murder gangs (The bloodiest day in the last 40 years (May 17th 1974) was down to Loyalist paramilitaries; 33 people were killed over the course of 2 bombings, 1 in Monaghan, 1 in Dublin). The British troops responded by viciously murdering 13 unarmed Catholics, seven of whom were minors. Moreover, British forces colluded with the Loyalist paramilitaries – the same paramilitaries who were responsible for killing more civilians than the IRA.
I notice you did not bother to respond to the issue regarding the murder of Serb men, women, and children, as supported by vermin like the Lib Dems.
Moreover, Britain enacted its own genocide over the people of Ireland in the form of The Great Famine.
Totally agree with you Steven (the triple post). These idiots don’t seem to realise that the true butchers are the suicide bombers & car bombers that the troops are trying to stop. God knows how many more Iraqis may have died if the soldiers wern’t there. The REASONS they were sent in the first is another matter entirely.
These folk have the right to protest, but they have done it in such a stupid way that it will only work against them by firing up the Mail & its hypocritical readership and making life even more difficult for the people they think they are standing up for.
Stupid, stupid,stupid extreamists. If your so concerned about innocent Muslims in Iraq them why don’t you piss off over there and see the truth for yourselves?
…neither of which I defended, and if you recall I didn’t ascribe any political leaning to the terrorists either – both Unionist and Republicans are scum. In any case, they may have come to stop the Unionist murderers, but they definitely stayed due to the Republican murders.
My comment about respecting the self determination of the populace is a side issue, and one many republicans forget when using such terms as ‘tyranny’ when ironically it’s them who wish to enforce their will on people who largely do not wish to follow it 0 the very definition of tyranny. If the day ever comes where even 50.000000001% of people in NI wish unification, I’d support it wholeheartedly. Until then, shut the fuck up about ‘tyranny’ when it’s clearly the will of the majority, even if you can’t handle the reality of it. I see however you can’t defend Ireland’s role in WW2 or your reasoning for claiming support of it was immoral.
If Britain hadn’t fought, Ireland would have been fucked. Up the arse. And not even bought flowers first. Remember Hitler thought the English were Aryans and was shocked that we fought against them. He envisioned an alliance where in partnership Britain would have Africa and most of Asia, with Germany controlling Europe and Russia. The Celtic Irish would not have fared so well under a Nazi regime, so be fucking grateful there existed some bullwark. Britain fought for incredibly decent moral grounds and arguably would have had a much easier time of it if they appeased Germany to the detriment of the entire planet and it’s history (no D-Day or resulting VE or arguably even Atom Bomb before Germany without an Allied Britain)
Mr Morden – That’s my point exactly. Why they went over there is another reason and another moral issue entirely, but their actions over there are to PREVENT Muslim butchery, of which not a single Muslim state has offered to send troops to assist with.
Stupid fucking idiots.
Woops, Double post
DailyFail –
Could you please not refer to me (a christian) as a sock puppet or on the same pedalstal as the disgusting BNP and the ignorent pro-Israel lobby. Their are moderate christians as their are moderate muslims.
…and apologies for the Irish detour. I’m not anti-Irish or have any opinion on the NI issue other than respecting the will of the majority of the population, but went into this detour purely to piss off Gordon Clown (as it’s clearly his hot button issue) and show off his ignorance and hypocrisy, and not to denigrate and Irish people or their contribution to the war, where many Irish fought and contributed despite the moral and intellectual failure of the political elite to grasp the seriousness of the situation.
All countries have periods of ignorance and tyranny in their history, Ireland included. This doesn’t excuse them, but neither does it give credence to pissing all over the nobler periods either or excuse batshit insane and racist sentiments, as the aptly named Clown has expressed about Black people in the Express topic.
..also as I’ve probably come across as very right wing here, I must say I realise (as Mr Morden rightly says) there are moderate Muslims too who are anti-war. I just don’t believe these in the picture are, and are probably very pro war when it comes to Hamas and the like.
KHAAAAAN, the congenital idiot dos’nt know you were refering to ”isn’t” as a grammatical error and not a spelling mistake. However, DailyFails meaning is perfectly clear to any normal person reading the post by putting it into context.
DailyFail, don’t pay any attention to the congenital idiot Steven, he’s a psychological fetish about spelling. His own name should be spelt ”wee prick”.
This is pure primeval. On the one side you have scary Asians with beards, on the other smart white soldiers. Essential the mail is shouting at you: ONE OR THE OTHER! WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON!
Its pure misleading reporting, look at Shafiq’s post: is that attitude from Muslims (even though it is expressed, and probably by the majority of Muslims) ever going to make it to the front page of the mail? They could have just as easily put Muslims applauding and supporting the soldiers or the British military destroying some part of Iraq, with Muslims cowering and crying.
The Iraq war was wrong but these protestors are targetting the wrong people.
I do wonder if there is any merit in somebody who uses profanities and calls people “scum”…
“If the day ever comes where even 50.000000001% of people in NI wish unification, I’d support it wholeheartedly.”
This is a problematic piece of your argument – Irish unification involves not just the will of the people of the North, but the people of the Republic also. The majority of people on the island of Ireland want a reunion.
“Until then, shut the fuck up about ‘tyranny’ when it’s clearly the will of the majority, even if you can’t handle the reality of it.”
Ignoring your childish remarks, it appears that it is you who cannot handle the reality.
“I see however you can’t defend Ireland’s role in WW2 or your reasoning for claiming support of it was immoral.”
So I am in the wrong because I think it’s wrong that circa 50m were killed in a war? Interesting.
“but went into this detour purely to piss off Gordon Clown (as it’s clearly his hot button issue) and show off his ignorance and hypocrisy…”
You simply aren’t intelligent enough to piss me off, Steven.
You are the one who is ignorant of the troubles in Ireland.
Mr Mordon — Freedom of speech means I can compare whoever I like, to whomever I like. Remember that part about saying things people don’t like? There we have it.
Also, I had you tagged as a sycophantic Daily Mail Reader sockpuppet, but that’s obviously my mistake. Christian sycophantic Daily Mail reader sockpuppet it is then.
“Mr Mordon — Freedom of speech means I can compare whoever I like, to whomever I like. Remember that part about saying things people don’t like? There we have it.”
he asked very politely for you to tone down your wording because of the impression it gave, freedom of speach means you can do that as well.
please, if you would be so kind, in future refrain from abusing the right of free speech to justify being a bit of a knob towards someone. thank you.
Eek we’ve entered the realms of the Irish Question.
I won’t shite on about it but, for the record: ”terrorists” is a fairly broad term, and you have to question what would send a community to rally around such ”terrorists.” That isn’t my main gripe with what Steven said though, its the WWII angle…
1. Very small elements of the IRA colluded with the Nazis. Just like in WWI, there was a split within the movement, only this time the split favoured the British angle even more.
2. Devalera remained neutral in order to protect Ireland’s sovereignty. It was only independent for 18 years at the outbreak! As late as 1938 British soldiers had controlled Irish ports and he wasn’t going to let them back in on a matter of principle that would, you’ll have to understand, been felt as strong by Dev as the principle to oppose the Nazis was felt by those in more established nations.
In fact, a island such as Ireland, with such a small population, wouldve been a hinderence to the allies, as they wouldve needed to place a great many thousand soldiers to protect the coastline.
3. ‘Hotbed’ of German spies is also laughable. It is well known that German military personnel and British who landed/crashed/crossed the border into Ireland for whatever reason received very different treatment. It should also be noted that many IRA members were hung for gun-running during this time.
Moreover, I’d like to add that none of this has anything to do with anything, and would question why Steven resorted to insulting an entire nation in reaction to Gordon Clown’s rather immature comments.
I think the Times makes Mr Mordon and Stevens excellent points for them.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article5891253.ece
As someone from Northern Ireland, I’m rather bemused with the discussion over the Republic. It happened like 60 years ago lol! In NI we always regard the Republic as our rather cooky, slightly wacky cousins, can’t imagine anyone actually caring about WW2. Dev is just some guy my granda saw on his honeymoon to Dublin. (Northern Ireland is of course the rather violent, slightly annoying Cousin to the Republic. The type that’s always drunk and just annoys everyone at your grandmothers funeral)
Wow we’ve descended into historical argument.
Unless this is a board populated by history PhDs I would suggest staying away from them and focusing on the here and now.
Protesters = a bit dumb. I doubt the soldiers said “great theres a war on- a chance to kill some muslims!”
at the end of the day they don’t hold views representative of the entire muslim community so anyone (DM readers im adressing here) deciding their actions justify institutionalised racism are just as dumb.
lol 15 people protested, not totally ignorant protest since their views on the war are held but many people, protests like this have happened before especially in the US with troops and that’s a patriotic country the press their hardly mentioned them, and the difference in this case they happen to be Muslim and its a headline story, go figure
well we know the daily mail as being lieing, deceitful and hypocritical newspaper that spreads hate and fear through its lies and deceit like the sun, express and the daily telegraph [more professional] these corporate newspapers know the way to sell stories is to raise fears about some community that’s cultural practices seem a bit alien to most white UK population since they cant officially be racist the inhumane bigotry which is combined with racial suggestions because of the logical conclusion to the assumptions.
I know you can hold anti-immigrant views and even racist but this Islamaphovia is stupid, religious Muslims make up a less then a third of Muslims and a tiny minority of them very tiny have any sort of empathy against Britain really because of its foreign policy
I saw an interview with one of the demonstrators, it has to be said he was a bit thick.
“If the day ever comes where even 50.000000001% of people in NI wish unification, I’d support it wholeheartedly.”
The Unionists were offered 9 counties to form Northern Ireland – they only took 6, to ensure a Protestant majority. i.e. the border were gerrymandered so that this kind of argument could me made forever more…
Just thinking about this…
If one sincerely belives that the Iraq War was illegal, for which a case can be made…
If one beleives that ‘I was only following orders’ ceased to be an acceptable legal defense in Nurenburg, which is likely to be a less controversial assertion…
Then actually reminding squaddies that they’re complicit in war crimes might be entirely legitimate, indeed the duty of any democrat.
Welcome to International Politics, Nick!
With the same reasoning, Saddam should’ve been tried by an International Court for the far larger war crimes he committed both against Iran and Kuwait. It could, perhaps, be noted that Iran would’ve likely brought evidence that showed where Saddam got all his help and how much certain coUntrieS knew About said war crimes.
So instead he went to an Iraqi Court on a very specific charge and was hanged within a month of being charged.
Any true democrat would question this, also….
Indeed.
I do rather subscribe to a simplistic, some would suggest racist, idea of what to expect from nations.
Britain is plainly the mother of democracy, best place to live and most moral nation. So when it gets it wrong, it’s very bad.
Israel and the USA are new nations that haven’t quite worked things out, despite generally having sound intentions. So when they get things wrong, it’s a bit sad.
North Korea, Iraq (before and after) and the Sudan and batshit crazy. What the Hell do you expect?