Best get a trade then. Or do a degree that actually leads to employment. I bet those that do law or medicine won’t have to worry, and if it makes those that want to do media studies think a little then that might not be so bad a thing.
Ugh, what a way to spin it! I’d like to see free higher education for all, but I don’t think of it in class terms. Why not “STUDENT FEES: NEW THREAT TO EDUCATION”?
Because they are the cornerstones of deceny whilst also being the most marginalised and victimised section of our society Ade. Only they love this country, work hard and have any moral fibre and their elevated social standing and related financial and societal perks must be defended at all costs because, after all, social mobility is an evil. Who would stand up for these poor souls if not the Mail???
I actually think tuition fees in their current guise are a nonsense but this story is based on a BBC (that liberal mouth piece) survey asking unis what they would like to see. Its hardly a Government white paper is it.
The working class have no place among the spires of academia. They have heriditary stupidity. Pack them off to some poly to learn plumbing or hairdressing if they want more education.
I fully oppose student fees, but I’m amused at the stance of the Daily Mail, acting as if only “Middle Class” Daily Mail readers are affected (or rather, they’re the only ones that matter).
“Or do a degree that actually leads to employment.”
Even for those that do, that doesn’t help if you haven’t got the money up front. Even if theoretically a degree is a “good investment”, taking on a big loan is still something that may put people off when they don’t have the money to start with (although yes, it’s poorer people who are more at risk than the middle classes).
And I’m no fan of “mickey mouse” courses, but it is wrong to equate degrees with job-worthyness – what happened to wanting an educated population, and studying something for its academic sake, and not how marketable it is? Are subjects such as philosophy and history now “mickey mouse” subjects comparable to media studies, because they aren’t worth as much money as law and medicine?
Nonsense. There are plenty of academic areas where getting a good job is not guaranteed, so taking on a huge loan on the hopes that you might get one is a huge risk, which will put off anyone except those who have parents with the money.
Just because the Daily Mail says something, doesn’t mean we have to take the complete opposite point of view. Just because we might agree on some points, doesn’t stop us thinking that the DM is generally a load of crap.
Ironically in point to Nick, I know of several students who studied Science and have yet to move forward in any serious progression.
History or the arts are no more useful nowadays than a degree in Computing or Marketing or even mine which was Communications, maybe it’s a joke course in your view Nick but the top end of communications/marketing pays obscene amounts.
Secondary this won’t put off the middle classes, they’ve always gone to University this will put off the lower classes the people who if we are to eradicate the vast differences in social moblity need to be in Universities and learning.
I’m more with the agreement on a graduate tax, where people’s life time earnings are taken more into account rather than a flat rate fee.
I doubt the Mail was so vocal when Fees were considered an EXCELLENT POLICY.
“Best get a trade then. Or do a degree that actually leads to employment. I bet those that do law or medicine won’t have to worry, and if it makes those that want to do media studies think a little then that might not be so bad a thing.”
Of course, cant let institutions produce even more Daily Mail editors. Can we?
Considering the rise of Television and the Internet. The need for skilled workers within the media industries has exploded. The BBC wont even consider an application for work unless someone has a 2.1 or better on a BA or BSc or has an exceptional portfolio. Even The Sun of all papers would need an expansive portfolio and a degree before considering people for employment. Most Sun journos were educated at Cambridge and Oxford too. While these courses certainly attract some wasters looking for an easy degree or a route to stardom. The drop out rate is absolutley immense since they are very tough to get through with oodles of theory and workshop practise (You should see how many people struggle with properly lighting a set).
But hey, nobody likes the media. Smug twats the lot of em’.
Well, I was a working class kid who went to university, but I suppose I’m now middle class, and that’s partly due to my university education. So, being charitable, that’s what they could mean: high fees will keep out working class students, limiting their social mobility. Though if that were the case, it’d make more sense to write “new threat to working classes”.
“10 Brilliant pages of good health” – somehow I doubt it.
I’m from a working class (Dad: Lorry Driver; Mum, cleaner/office assistant). I ended up going to Uni at 25 and now at 32 am a software developer. Like you guys have said, they’re being a bit offensive with their pigeon holing of Middle class kids going to Uni. Infact, didn’t Blair put too much emphasis on degrees in the late 90s which ended up with more people than ever going into higher education and devaluing the degree?
“Middle Classes” – ha! the Mail loves a class oriented society.
Too right Russell. It’s another ‘Them And Us’ headline. Maybe back in the day the snooties looked down on the plebs and fags but if you really expect to see a lecture room divided in to status and class today then think again. University is one of the most classless places to be.
My uni (Durham) wasn’t, I met with a lot of snobbery. But I’m inclined to believe it wasn’t typical of universities in general. We just ended up with all the public school types who weren’t bright enough to go to Oxbridge but still wanted a degree from a respectable university so went to Durham to do something with low grade requirements and minimal lectures. Then spent their time being snotty to people whose mums were merely barmaids from the North *sniff*.
A room full of salt? I suppose I’d better give the response The Mail expects of me and say ‘What the bl**dy hell are those doctors up to now?’
I guess The Mail is throwing its arms around the middle class as it’s the biggest class in the UK and the paper words its headlines with one eye on circulation.
An issue manufactured by the Mail to massage the prejudices of its readers
Why does this have to be a class issue at all.
Student loans are paid off when the graduate is earning a minimum salary , was £15,000 , don’t know what it is now.
The repayment was 9 % of all earnings above this figure.
Based on the assumption that the graduate will be living on his own and self supporting what difference does it make what mummy and daddy are earning now ,the money he/she has to live on in the future will be the same
To put this in perspective someone on £25000 will be paying £900 /year extra , surely not a high price to pay for 3 years education which probably got them the job in the first place.
I know this is getting off the point, but I do resent people like the first contributor who slag off media studies as a degree. It is ignorant to do so on many counts not all of which I can list here, but I will contribute a few:
First, everyone in this country gets there news from some form of media and, as this website shows, this can be manipulated to suit the agenda of those who diseminate it. An awareness of this would instantly make people at least question what they read and may encourage them to think for themselves.
Second, it is extremely useful to understand what actually constitutes news and have an understanding of our reaction to it. Alot of people seem to think that just because they read something in the paper it is far more common than it actually is. For example, in Spanish papers you very rarely if ever get “phew what a scorcher” headlines in summer because hot weather in summer is so normal as to not require comment. Therefore, the more prominent a story about something scary, ie knife crime, actually the more reassured we should be that it is actually extremely rare.
It is also ironic that papers like the Sun and the Mail have a go at media studies because they like to fantasise about their own importance. Who can forget “It Was The Sun Wot Won It” back in 1992, or the Mail’s plastic bag campaign a year or so ago. Well, if the Sun really did do for Kinnock that year, it clearly had a big influence on the democratic process and therefore it must be important and relevant to study it. On the other hand, if newspapers exert no influence on the public then media studies is indeed a mickey mouse course, but they can’t have it both ways.
Also, like it or not, the media is a massive employer these days and then therefore , purely from a pragmatic point of view (although I’m an education for its own sake man, myself) it prepares many of our young people for a 21st century career.
I went to Oxford Brookes University (formerly Oxford Poly), and ironically it had a much higher proportion of ex-public school pupils than Oxford proper. Unfortunately, they were all the thick ones who were too stupid to get into Oxbridge, and I spent three years trying to steer well clear of the twats.
Nick- I do medicine at university, and I’m far from “okay”
See my course is 6 years if you include my premed year. I don’t get any government aid because my parents earn too much, but they don’t earn enough to simply pay my accomodation for me
so, two £3000 loans (maintenance and tuition) a year for six years- £36000.
Even as a doctor thats a years wages. My uni seems to be doing perfectly fine, 11th in the country even with the stupid amount of building work theyre spending money on. An increase in fees would basically be disasterous to everyone like me- not rich enough to just pay it, and too rich for the government to pay it.
So infact, the mail is in a way right- it won’t be those from lower socioeconomic groups dropping out of uni, itll be those who don’t get government grants, and thus are “middle class”
I think they should put the fees up. Pay your own way, that shoud be the message. And, while they’re at it, get 6th formers to pay too – they’ll get a better job than someone who leaves at 16. Free education till 16 – everyone else – get a loan. Stop expecting the majority to subserdise your career progression.
To say someting off topic has anybody read littledick today? His article on Sharon Shoesmith is disgusting. He actually has the fucking balls to write,
“While the last breaths were being bludgeoned out of the defenceless Baby P, Shoesmith’s sentinels were busying themselves sitting in case meetings, ticking boxes, sipping fair trade coffee and scouring the jobs adverts in The Guardian.”
Wanker
To throw in my two cents into the education debate, I’ll take a fee increase as long the University gives me more for my money. And who cares what degree you study, its what you do with it that counts. I know people who are studying Law and Medicine and they’re not going to do very well out of it because they don’t do much work, get no work experience (which is the key to any job not a degree) and seem to think they’ll walk straight into a job.
In fact Dan Smith from Rochester has the best word to say to LittleJohn, needless to say his comments got 83 down comments.
You attack the nanny state, Mr Littlejohn, and then wonder why the council can’t see what is going on in every home – you can’t have it both ways, I’m afraid.
What your saying is “fuck helping people out, they should do it themselves”. Do you beleive in the NHS? Why should the majority help the few that are sick? Or the police force? “why should the majority help the few that suffer crime” etc etc
Society works better with everyone chipping into the pot, then having some take out of the pot. Very few can actually afford to stand on their own to feet – I dare say the majority cannot.
And anyway, if someone progresses in their career won’t they then be paying more tax, thus helping society?
I’m sorry, but FUCK the middle classes. What about the working classes, or are they destined to be forever locked out of education and ghettoised?
I grew up in a poor working class background, had no grants or parental support and got indebted up to my tits. If the fees went up any further, I wouldn’t have been able to go, despite (he immodestly says) being a fucking genius.
This is pretty much a way (if it goes through) of keeping the education (and therefore employment) opportunities within the middle classes from generation to generation. If they do this, they might as well abolish inheritance tax too, lowering the glass ceiling for social mobility to zero and therefore also stagnating the arts and sciences by denying millions of potential great minds any way of developing and instead leaving them to wither on a McDonalds shaped vine.
I’m not being some Marxist/Lenninist/Trotskyite/Commie there, I don’t mean fuck the middle classes in general, I just mean in terms of exclusive sympathy when there’s plenty worse off who don’t even get considered.
I support Labour through and through with pretty much all their polices since 1997 and think Blair was a brilliant, socially progressive Prime Minister (remember lowering the age of gay consent despite it being only a vote-loser?) but what they’ve done with education is a mess, specifically the introduction of prohibitive fees and expansion of faith schools.
Faith schools should be outright banned and education should be funded through taxation with only nominal fees if required linked to future earnings. Education should be open and accessible to all. My sister has just had to go through the charade of having her son baptised to get him into the CofE school when he’s older, despite them being funded through general taxation. What a joke.
Presumably if universities ever complained that educational quality was sufferring as a result of lack of funds, the mail would be hopping and screaming too!
The fact is that a fee increase won’t affect anyone other than “the middle classes,” because “the working classes” pay vastly reduced university fees, and “the upper classes” get their parents to pay.
Education should be for everyone, don’t turn this into a class war thing because it isnt
Joe – Out of all my friends at university, my parents were by far the poorest yet, I was the only one who had to pay full fees. The rest used all manner of financial tricks to avoid it, the usual being as most ran their own business or were self employed they claimed they had no income as it was all put back in the business.
Also they determine a mandatory ‘parental contribution’ which they deduct from what the government are willing to contribute to your maintenance, even though my parents refused to contribute anything, so I lost out doubly. The way social demographics are too, middle class parents are far more likely to make up any shortfalls in their children’s funds, yet this isn’t taken into account (as then everyone would just claim estrangement) so those with shitty parents are left screwed.
So there’s the irony. I came from a poor background (£30,000 combined income with 4 kids), yet had to pay full fees and had a reduced maintenance loan, while a number of my friends with combined parental income of £60,000 upwards with either just one, or no siblings, got big loans and no fees on top of parental support.
FFS Littlejohn is one big ugly hairy C**T. Seriously I now have a person to blame every thing on. The recession, the credit crunch, the crap pasta sauce I bought today, everything. Surely there is something that can be done to stop this odious twat?
Sheesh – 10, er, people have given their green arrow approval to my post including this…
Nobody else in the media comes close to matching the talent you possess to penetrate the lies, obfuscation and spin and provide REAL insight into the problems of our society, so surely somebody – CMD are you listening? – has a huge opportunity to give you the platform you so deserve.
Yes, indeed, it was meant to be sarcastic. When I went I didn’t pay fees, got a maintenance grant, got housing benefit, even got unemployment benefit in the vacations. How things change.
Chris – I’m glad that was the case! I’d have been worried if you were serious, although what you said does show the shocking hypocrisy you get from Mail readers – they advocate a completely self-centred, stand-on-your-own-two-feet attitude, but expect to be helped out when it suits them as well.
I was at Uni from 1996 to 1999, and was among the last intakes to get fees paid, and a small grant. It was tough enough then, and still took me some time to pay off my loans – I’ve no idea how I’d have coped if I had to pay as much as students do now, and I probably wouldn’t have gone to uni. Which would have been a tragic loss, because I had (a) a brilliant time, (b) loved my course and (c) have worked in a related field continuously ever since. Best thing I ever did.
I agree, they’re usually either plumbers or plasterers with a bit of cash who’ve maybe taken an apprentice on, or from an older generation where barely anybody went to university, that’s why it’s seen as something evil and suspicious.
The irony here of course being that Dacre and I’m sure 100% of his students went to university, but of course they’re not writing a newspaper, but a comic that panders to it’s readership, so university and students = BAD.
…just don’t ask for a job on the rag without one though, or we’ll laugh at you.
OK magazine (which of course is written and published by the Express group) has released a ‘tasteful’ memorial edition to Jade Goody. While she’s still alive. With her year of death on the cover.
Is there ANY depths these people will not sink to in order to sell copies? Does Desmond have any humanity in him whatsoever? Do the readers? Dacre may be a xenophobic, paranoid, right wing, ultra-capitalist, but you think even he would draw the line at this…
steven: that makes me wonder what they’d do if she doesn’t die after all this. the newspapers and magazines have obviously got their obituary pieces ready to print and are just waiting for it to happen (or not, in the case of OK!). it must be a nice easy job: just copy and paste her biography from wikipedia, reprint a few public domain photos, and hey presto you can sell millions of copies of your rag. can you imagine how disappointed they’d be if she suddenly pulled through!
Best get a trade then. Or do a degree that actually leads to employment. I bet those that do law or medicine won’t have to worry, and if it makes those that want to do media studies think a little then that might not be so bad a thing.
What is their obsession with the middle class? They never run anything defending the working class!
Was this or not the paper that called tripling Maternity Pay ‘madness’.
And of course, only the Middle Class go to Uni.
Ugh, what a way to spin it! I’d like to see free higher education for all, but I don’t think of it in class terms. Why not “STUDENT FEES: NEW THREAT TO EDUCATION”?
Because they are the cornerstones of deceny whilst also being the most marginalised and victimised section of our society Ade. Only they love this country, work hard and have any moral fibre and their elevated social standing and related financial and societal perks must be defended at all costs because, after all, social mobility is an evil. Who would stand up for these poor souls if not the Mail???
I actually think tuition fees in their current guise are a nonsense but this story is based on a BBC (that liberal mouth piece) survey asking unis what they would like to see. Its hardly a Government white paper is it.
‘Could a room full of salt cure your sinus problems?’
What, by suffocating you?
Doesn’t it affect everyone including the working class as well? No? Oh yes that’s right *whispers* we don’t talk about them…..
The working class have no place among the spires of academia. They have heriditary stupidity. Pack them off to some poly to learn plumbing or hairdressing if they want more education.
New threat to (honest, law abiding, Mail reading) Middle Classes! – ahhh diddums!
So as a second year undergrad from a working-class background, does the Mail think I’ll be alright?
Talking about good health, Chris Tarrent could do with some Daily Mail “crows feet creme”.
I fully oppose student fees, but I’m amused at the stance of the Daily Mail, acting as if only “Middle Class” Daily Mail readers are affected (or rather, they’re the only ones that matter).
“Or do a degree that actually leads to employment.”
Even for those that do, that doesn’t help if you haven’t got the money up front. Even if theoretically a degree is a “good investment”, taking on a big loan is still something that may put people off when they don’t have the money to start with (although yes, it’s poorer people who are more at risk than the middle classes).
And I’m no fan of “mickey mouse” courses, but it is wrong to equate degrees with job-worthyness – what happened to wanting an educated population, and studying something for its academic sake, and not how marketable it is? Are subjects such as philosophy and history now “mickey mouse” subjects comparable to media studies, because they aren’t worth as much money as law and medicine?
Nonsense. There are plenty of academic areas where getting a good job is not guaranteed, so taking on a huge loan on the hopes that you might get one is a huge risk, which will put off anyone except those who have parents with the money.
Just because the Daily Mail says something, doesn’t mean we have to take the complete opposite point of view. Just because we might agree on some points, doesn’t stop us thinking that the DM is generally a load of crap.
Ironically in point to Nick, I know of several students who studied Science and have yet to move forward in any serious progression.
History or the arts are no more useful nowadays than a degree in Computing or Marketing or even mine which was Communications, maybe it’s a joke course in your view Nick but the top end of communications/marketing pays obscene amounts.
Secondary this won’t put off the middle classes, they’ve always gone to University this will put off the lower classes the people who if we are to eradicate the vast differences in social moblity need to be in Universities and learning.
I’m more with the agreement on a graduate tax, where people’s life time earnings are taken more into account rather than a flat rate fee.
I doubt the Mail was so vocal when Fees were considered an EXCELLENT POLICY.
“Best get a trade then. Or do a degree that actually leads to employment. I bet those that do law or medicine won’t have to worry, and if it makes those that want to do media studies think a little then that might not be so bad a thing.”
Of course, cant let institutions produce even more Daily Mail editors. Can we?
Considering the rise of Television and the Internet. The need for skilled workers within the media industries has exploded. The BBC wont even consider an application for work unless someone has a 2.1 or better on a BA or BSc or has an exceptional portfolio. Even The Sun of all papers would need an expansive portfolio and a degree before considering people for employment. Most Sun journos were educated at Cambridge and Oxford too. While these courses certainly attract some wasters looking for an easy degree or a route to stardom. The drop out rate is absolutley immense since they are very tough to get through with oodles of theory and workshop practise (You should see how many people struggle with properly lighting a set).
But hey, nobody likes the media. Smug twats the lot of em’.
Well, I was a working class kid who went to university, but I suppose I’m now middle class, and that’s partly due to my university education. So, being charitable, that’s what they could mean: high fees will keep out working class students, limiting their social mobility. Though if that were the case, it’d make more sense to write “new threat to working classes”.
Me too Moggie, but I don’t think it’s us they’re talking about, it’s their own darling offspring. We should have known our place.
I’m pretty sure doubling fees would affect the working class more than it does the middle class. But then again, who cares about the working class?
It’s all the Muslims’ fault, I tell ya.
“10 Brilliant pages of good health” – somehow I doubt it.
I’m from a working class (Dad: Lorry Driver; Mum, cleaner/office assistant). I ended up going to Uni at 25 and now at 32 am a software developer. Like you guys have said, they’re being a bit offensive with their pigeon holing of Middle class kids going to Uni. Infact, didn’t Blair put too much emphasis on degrees in the late 90s which ended up with more people than ever going into higher education and devaluing the degree?
“Middle Classes” – ha! the Mail loves a class oriented society.
Too right Russell. It’s another ‘Them And Us’ headline. Maybe back in the day the snooties looked down on the plebs and fags but if you really expect to see a lecture room divided in to status and class today then think again. University is one of the most classless places to be.
My uni (Durham) wasn’t, I met with a lot of snobbery. But I’m inclined to believe it wasn’t typical of universities in general. We just ended up with all the public school types who weren’t bright enough to go to Oxbridge but still wanted a degree from a respectable university so went to Durham to do something with low grade requirements and minimal lectures. Then spent their time being snotty to people whose mums were merely barmaids from the North *sniff*.
There is no news here. No announcement, no finding. Nothing.
Just “if it is eventually decided to raise student fees it may mean paying more for University”.
And the salt thing above – I hope that links to a page containing the single word, “No”.
A room full of salt? I suppose I’d better give the response The Mail expects of me and say ‘What the bl**dy hell are those doctors up to now?’
I guess The Mail is throwing its arms around the middle class as it’s the biggest class in the UK and the paper words its headlines with one eye on circulation.
An issue manufactured by the Mail to massage the prejudices of its readers
Why does this have to be a class issue at all.
Student loans are paid off when the graduate is earning a minimum salary , was £15,000 , don’t know what it is now.
The repayment was 9 % of all earnings above this figure.
Based on the assumption that the graduate will be living on his own and self supporting what difference does it make what mummy and daddy are earning now ,the money he/she has to live on in the future will be the same
To put this in perspective someone on £25000 will be paying £900 /year extra , surely not a high price to pay for 3 years education which probably got them the job in the first place.
I know this is getting off the point, but I do resent people like the first contributor who slag off media studies as a degree. It is ignorant to do so on many counts not all of which I can list here, but I will contribute a few:
First, everyone in this country gets there news from some form of media and, as this website shows, this can be manipulated to suit the agenda of those who diseminate it. An awareness of this would instantly make people at least question what they read and may encourage them to think for themselves.
Second, it is extremely useful to understand what actually constitutes news and have an understanding of our reaction to it. Alot of people seem to think that just because they read something in the paper it is far more common than it actually is. For example, in Spanish papers you very rarely if ever get “phew what a scorcher” headlines in summer because hot weather in summer is so normal as to not require comment. Therefore, the more prominent a story about something scary, ie knife crime, actually the more reassured we should be that it is actually extremely rare.
It is also ironic that papers like the Sun and the Mail have a go at media studies because they like to fantasise about their own importance. Who can forget “It Was The Sun Wot Won It” back in 1992, or the Mail’s plastic bag campaign a year or so ago. Well, if the Sun really did do for Kinnock that year, it clearly had a big influence on the democratic process and therefore it must be important and relevant to study it. On the other hand, if newspapers exert no influence on the public then media studies is indeed a mickey mouse course, but they can’t have it both ways.
Also, like it or not, the media is a massive employer these days and then therefore , purely from a pragmatic point of view (although I’m an education for its own sake man, myself) it prepares many of our young people for a 21st century career.
Right, I’ve calmed down now…………
I went to Oxford Brookes University (formerly Oxford Poly), and ironically it had a much higher proportion of ex-public school pupils than Oxford proper. Unfortunately, they were all the thick ones who were too stupid to get into Oxbridge, and I spent three years trying to steer well clear of the twats.
Nick- I do medicine at university, and I’m far from “okay”
See my course is 6 years if you include my premed year. I don’t get any government aid because my parents earn too much, but they don’t earn enough to simply pay my accomodation for me
so, two £3000 loans (maintenance and tuition) a year for six years- £36000.
Even as a doctor thats a years wages. My uni seems to be doing perfectly fine, 11th in the country even with the stupid amount of building work theyre spending money on. An increase in fees would basically be disasterous to everyone like me- not rich enough to just pay it, and too rich for the government to pay it.
So infact, the mail is in a way right- it won’t be those from lower socioeconomic groups dropping out of uni, itll be those who don’t get government grants, and thus are “middle class”
I think they should put the fees up. Pay your own way, that shoud be the message. And, while they’re at it, get 6th formers to pay too – they’ll get a better job than someone who leaves at 16. Free education till 16 – everyone else – get a loan. Stop expecting the majority to subserdise your career progression.
To say someting off topic has anybody read littledick today? His article on Sharon Shoesmith is disgusting. He actually has the fucking balls to write,
“While the last breaths were being bludgeoned out of the defenceless Baby P, Shoesmith’s sentinels were busying themselves sitting in case meetings, ticking boxes, sipping fair trade coffee and scouring the jobs adverts in The Guardian.”
Wanker
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1162520/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Share-pain-No-woman-doesnt-deserve-penny.html
To throw in my two cents into the education debate, I’ll take a fee increase as long the University gives me more for my money. And who cares what degree you study, its what you do with it that counts. I know people who are studying Law and Medicine and they’re not going to do very well out of it because they don’t do much work, get no work experience (which is the key to any job not a degree) and seem to think they’ll walk straight into a job.
In fact Dan Smith from Rochester has the best word to say to LittleJohn, needless to say his comments got 83 down comments.
You attack the nanny state, Mr Littlejohn, and then wonder why the council can’t see what is going on in every home – you can’t have it both ways, I’m afraid.
Hear Hear
If your being sarcastic my apologies Chris.
What your saying is “fuck helping people out, they should do it themselves”. Do you beleive in the NHS? Why should the majority help the few that are sick? Or the police force? “why should the majority help the few that suffer crime” etc etc
Society works better with everyone chipping into the pot, then having some take out of the pot. Very few can actually afford to stand on their own to feet – I dare say the majority cannot.
And anyway, if someone progresses in their career won’t they then be paying more tax, thus helping society?
Boo hoo hoo.
The ‘middle classes’ lost some of their feather-bedding.
It’s an outrage, I demand everyone else (particularly the less well off) subsidise them and their advataged lives immeadiately!
Jebus H, the DM.
A confused bunch of self-obsessed whining morons.
I’m sorry, but FUCK the middle classes. What about the working classes, or are they destined to be forever locked out of education and ghettoised?
I grew up in a poor working class background, had no grants or parental support and got indebted up to my tits. If the fees went up any further, I wouldn’t have been able to go, despite (he immodestly says) being a fucking genius.
This is pretty much a way (if it goes through) of keeping the education (and therefore employment) opportunities within the middle classes from generation to generation. If they do this, they might as well abolish inheritance tax too, lowering the glass ceiling for social mobility to zero and therefore also stagnating the arts and sciences by denying millions of potential great minds any way of developing and instead leaving them to wither on a McDonalds shaped vine.
I’m not being some Marxist/Lenninist/Trotskyite/Commie there, I don’t mean fuck the middle classes in general, I just mean in terms of exclusive sympathy when there’s plenty worse off who don’t even get considered.
I support Labour through and through with pretty much all their polices since 1997 and think Blair was a brilliant, socially progressive Prime Minister (remember lowering the age of gay consent despite it being only a vote-loser?) but what they’ve done with education is a mess, specifically the introduction of prohibitive fees and expansion of faith schools.
Faith schools should be outright banned and education should be funded through taxation with only nominal fees if required linked to future earnings. Education should be open and accessible to all. My sister has just had to go through the charade of having her son baptised to get him into the CofE school when he’s older, despite them being funded through general taxation. What a joke.
Presumably if universities ever complained that educational quality was sufferring as a result of lack of funds, the mail would be hopping and screaming too!
Surely the bigger threat is to the people who REALLY can’t afford it?!
The fact is that a fee increase won’t affect anyone other than “the middle classes,” because “the working classes” pay vastly reduced university fees, and “the upper classes” get their parents to pay.
Education should be for everyone, don’t turn this into a class war thing because it isnt
Working classes pay the same fees as everybody else. They do however get more funding towards maintenance.
It just goes to show you can’t be too careful.
Joe – Out of all my friends at university, my parents were by far the poorest yet, I was the only one who had to pay full fees. The rest used all manner of financial tricks to avoid it, the usual being as most ran their own business or were self employed they claimed they had no income as it was all put back in the business.
Also they determine a mandatory ‘parental contribution’ which they deduct from what the government are willing to contribute to your maintenance, even though my parents refused to contribute anything, so I lost out doubly. The way social demographics are too, middle class parents are far more likely to make up any shortfalls in their children’s funds, yet this isn’t taken into account (as then everyone would just claim estrangement) so those with shitty parents are left screwed.
So there’s the irony. I came from a poor background (£30,000 combined income with 4 kids), yet had to pay full fees and had a reduced maintenance loan, while a number of my friends with combined parental income of £60,000 upwards with either just one, or no siblings, got big loans and no fees on top of parental support.
FFS Littlejohn is one big ugly hairy C**T. Seriously I now have a person to blame every thing on. The recession, the credit crunch, the crap pasta sauce I bought today, everything. Surely there is something that can be done to stop this odious twat?
Oh and by the way, is the objective of the daily puzzle pull out trying to find a proper news article in the DM?
Sheesh – 10, er, people have given their green arrow approval to my post including this…
Nobody else in the media comes close to matching the talent you possess to penetrate the lies, obfuscation and spin and provide REAL insight into the problems of our society, so surely somebody – CMD are you listening? – has a huge opportunity to give you the platform you so deserve.
Truly, you couldn’t make it up.
“Could a room full of salt cure your sinus problems?”
It didn’t work for me
Yes, indeed, it was meant to be sarcastic. When I went I didn’t pay fees, got a maintenance grant, got housing benefit, even got unemployment benefit in the vacations. How things change.
Chris – I’m glad that was the case! I’d have been worried if you were serious, although what you said does show the shocking hypocrisy you get from Mail readers – they advocate a completely self-centred, stand-on-your-own-two-feet attitude, but expect to be helped out when it suits them as well.
I was at Uni from 1996 to 1999, and was among the last intakes to get fees paid, and a small grant. It was tough enough then, and still took me some time to pay off my loans – I’ve no idea how I’d have coped if I had to pay as much as students do now, and I probably wouldn’t have gone to uni. Which would have been a tragic loss, because I had (a) a brilliant time, (b) loved my course and (c) have worked in a related field continuously ever since. Best thing I ever did.
The first thing that strikes me when I read the headline is ‘do many university-educated middle class people actually read the Daily Mail’?
I’ve always envisaged the average DM reader as somebody who aspired to be middle class, but wasn’t quiet there.
I agree, they’re usually either plumbers or plasterers with a bit of cash who’ve maybe taken an apprentice on, or from an older generation where barely anybody went to university, that’s why it’s seen as something evil and suspicious.
The irony here of course being that Dacre and I’m sure 100% of his students went to university, but of course they’re not writing a newspaper, but a comic that panders to it’s readership, so university and students = BAD.
…just don’t ask for a job on the rag without one though, or we’ll laugh at you.
do media studies think a little then that might not be so bad a thing.
Maybe if you ‘did’ a Media Studies degree yourself you’d be better versed in some of the tricks tabloid papers use to fool people.
Q. What’s the definition of an inferiority complex?
A. A polytechnic library!
Can I just direct people to this – http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7950616.stm
OK magazine (which of course is written and published by the Express group) has released a ‘tasteful’ memorial edition to Jade Goody. While she’s still alive. With her year of death on the cover.
Is there ANY depths these people will not sink to in order to sell copies? Does Desmond have any humanity in him whatsoever? Do the readers? Dacre may be a xenophobic, paranoid, right wing, ultra-capitalist, but you think even he would draw the line at this…
steven: that makes me wonder what they’d do if she doesn’t die after all this. the newspapers and magazines have obviously got their obituary pieces ready to print and are just waiting for it to happen (or not, in the case of OK!). it must be a nice easy job: just copy and paste her biography from wikipedia, reprint a few public domain photos, and hey presto you can sell millions of copies of your rag. can you imagine how disappointed they’d be if she suddenly pulled through!