i can’t stand liz jones, but the top strapline about fattening her up doesn’t sound very responsible. it certainly seems to be a bit flippant about anorexia.
*one* Final Strike? Does this mean that if this fails they’ll all give up?
And Anorexia for 40 years? Hmm… this is the same Liz Jones that wrote “I became anorexic at about the age of 11, an illness that continued into my late twenties.” – The Daily Mail has got *really* bad at maths recently.
The DM is turning its coverage of the Euro -elections into a ‘bash Gordon Brown’ exercise. Personally I hope that Brown hangs in there and defies this attempted media putsch. The real significance of the elections is the rout of the Left all over Europe. No surprises there. After all, what does the Left have to offer? More immigration from the third world and more appeasement of Islam. Wow, what great vote-winners! What Gordon Brown should do now is to drastically curtail immigration, which has been at the expense of traditional Labour supporters; say to the Muzzies… sorry!…our Islamic brethren, ‘it’s up to you to fit in with us, not the other way round’, and do more, much more, to help the poorest members of society, young or old, employed or unemployed. That way I think he could actually win the next election.
Loving the Star Wars gag johnnyh! Well done for thinking it up! Remember to alert the Ewoks and prepare them for battle first and Darth Brown should be history!
Also, as much as I dislike Liz Jones, It does sound disgusting what the Mail doing with her. Turning her illness into a game and forcing (not ‘challenging’ as they say) her to potentially damage her system. What are they going to do tomorrow, get one of their ‘journalists’ who has a nut allegy and run a story saying “Find out what happened when we made him eat a snickers bar”?
Anyway, why aren’t todays front pages up? They’re both piles of shit and I really wanted to bash them both.
I’ve got some bad news for you, Daveyp. It’s bad news for me also, since I agree with you to a degree.
The government has a maximum of eleven months to instigate the changes you’d like to see, and I’m pretty sure that even if that were to happen, the Tories would still get in after the next general election.
Mind you, you’d see an end of sorts to the appeasment of Islam (NB: Michael Gove has said that there’ll be more faith schools after a Tory victory) and probably less immigration. You’d also hear less about multi-culturalism, but I doubt there’d be much done to ‘help the poorest members of society, young or old, employed or unemployed’. Sorry about that, old chap.
Surely “More faith schools” could mean schools promoting any religion (not very helpful whichever particular fairy story they’re into in my opinion) though?
And your Tories secretly quite like immigrants because they’re the only people who’ll work for sod all in their factories and rent their slummy flats.
George, my good man, you are right to a degree. However, if Michael Gove is correct and a new Tory goverment permits faith schools to be established, some of them will probably be Islamic schools. This would brown off Daveyp and anyone else who thinks that the Left does too much to appease muslims. Since I don’t like faith schools of any type, I’ll be annoyed too.
Regarding the Tories’ relationship with immigrants: some time ago the infamous Tory David Willetts wrote that immigration could be compared to oil in a car; there has to be enough to keep the engine (or economy) running and too much will ruin the car/country. In the article Willetts wrote for the Torygraph, he didn’t state how much oil/immigration would be too much.
Sounds like you’re completely agreeing with me rather than to a degree, John!
And in my view it’s not the Left that do too much to appease Muslims but rather the PC, play it safe Centre.
Anyone else a bit disappointed by the protesters who egged Nick Griffin? I can understand people wanting to have a go at him but a more dignified opposition would have been better.
In the words of someone or other (I forget who), I don’t agree with what the pillock’s saying but I’ll always defend his right to say it.
Maybe he’ll have to start making Bin Laden- style home videos to communicate with his less well off “Foot Soldiers” and deliver them to the BBC!
I read Liz Jones’ article. The only redeeming thing was the final two paragraphs, where she basically said “don’t start starving yourself”. Unfortunately, everything prior to that was pretty much glorifying and glamorising anorexia.
She’s just awful, as well. She’s a sort-of vegan – not even trying, really, because she eats eggs (though not her own chickens’ eggs, because that’s “cannibalistic”).
Although I can’t stand Nick Grffin, I don’t think eggs should have been thrown at him. There are better ways to make one’s oppostition to this twit known.
“In the words of someone or other (I forget who), I don’t agree with what the pillock’s saying but I’ll always defend his right to say it.”
I don’t think that’s applicable here – sure, he has the right to say it, in the sense that I don’t think it should be illegal, but I don’t think a few protestors throwing eggs is criminalising his speech. (Not that I think throwing eggs should be legal, but I don’t think it’s a free speech issue.)
Also, freedom of speech doesn’t entail being given national coverage for your views. A few eggs don’t prevent his right to his beliefs, they were specifically targetted solely at the press conference. How much coverage were the anti-fascist protestors being given for their views, before they threw the eggs?)
Surely the protestors got his (Griffin’s) press conference more coverage though, I doubt many of the national media outlets would have covered it otherwise.
Just what does this mean, exactly?
How?
In what way are special ‘rights’ afforded to Islam that are not open to the rest of us – or which are not open to any other minority faith?
I hearing people mentioning this phrase from time to time but they never can actually explain what it’s supposed to mean.
It sounds to me like the sort of b*llocks the BNP spout but which doesn’t bear a moments honest examination.
We were talking in the pub last night about Griffin.. there’s a fair amount of anger that we’re being ‘represented’ by him (general consensus is they should have hardboiled the eggs as that would hurt more). I genuinely think if he walked into some parts of the city he wouldn’t get out again… the feeling is that strong.
Scary thing is the BNP now have a source of funding they didn’t have before. How much racist literature is going to go on ‘expenses’?
Round here anyone who admits to not voting gets a stern talking to and buys their own drinks.. interesting thing about PR is that not only does every vote count but every non-vote counts too, hence the result we got. One way to increase turnout at the next election I guess.
Von Brunn – the Neo-Nazi gunman with links to the BNP who shot up the Holocaust Museum in NY and murdered a security guard in today’s DM (12:06:09). I have tried to post three times a simple question without sucess. Why is this man not being described a terrorist? Oh right, I get it, Nazi white supremacists from the US don’t do terrorism, it’s only the likes of Irish and Islamic blokes in beards. And for that matter why are the comments criticising America’s crazy gun laws being flamed in red arrows. Something a bit sinister going on here I think, or maybe the DM just can’t escape from its dubious historical associations!?
Can someone help me i’m abit confused on a political issue regarding the BNP. They have won 2 European seats, right? But arn’t the BNP heavily anti-EU? So isn’t it abit, well bloody stupid, to be an MEP for the EU if they hate it? Or have I got it all horribly mixed up?
@ Mail Man…the appeasement of Islam? Well here goes: liberals and leftists condemn workingmen’s clubs or gentlemen’s clubs that bar women, yet say it’s all right for mosques to practice segregation, so sexism is OK if it’s on a religious basis…if I daveyp. insisted on being examined only by a male doctor I’d risk being expelled from my surgery for sexist behaviour, yet if a Muslim male did so on religious grounds he’d be allowed to…polygamy is going on in places like Birmingham and Bradford and the police do nothing about it, yet if a non-Muslim male marries several women he’ll get done for bigamy and do a long stretch in jail…if a gay man says that he thinks Islam is a poison in society he’ll almost certainly be prosecuted for incitement to hatred, but Sir Iqbal Sacranie makes hateful comments about gay men on the ‘Today’ programme and is not prosecuted…if a Muslim religious event were picketed by chanting fascists the police would arrest and charge the chanters in question, yet when a group of Islamic fanatics chant abuse at British soldiers marching through Luton the only people to get arrested are some guys who dare to answer the Muslims back!…if a neo-Nazi urged his followers to go out and kill Muslims he would (quite rightly) be arrested and charged, yet during the Salman Rushdie affair not one of the imams in Britain who urged their followers to kill Rushdie was charged…
I could go on and on but it’s getting late and I think that I’ve made my point.
@Powertotheimagination – Just sit down and have a cup of tea, it’ll pass! But I think it’s UKIP who’ve got the real problem of being like strongly anti-EU, and having MEPs in the European Parliament. Bloody stupid innit?
DavyP – hello sailor – Islam is a poison. RIght, where’s my law suit? If you’re in a surgery insisting on having a male doctor to the point of being thrown out, you are not being thrown out for being sexist. You’re being thrown out for being a wanker. There’s also a difference between political protest and racial abuse and if you heard what was shouted at that protest you’d know. And as for the Satanic Verses – well the author wasn’t arrested for writing a book that angered many Muslims and millions were spent protecting him. Doesn’t that go against your point at bit? The leader of the BNP denies the holocaust – isn’t that against the law too? It’s all weird, innit.
There are a lot of “would”s in your post. Can I use the benefit of your 100% accurate prediction of future events to ask what tomorrow’s lottery numbers will be?
@Jswindle…You artfully avoid answering most of the points I make. Take just one: do you think that Muslims have the right to insist on only being seen by a doctor who is the same sex as them? And if so, do you think that non-Muslims have the same right?
@Stevie H…Alas, I cannot predict the lottery numbers. BUT, I can do some number-predicting for you. In most European countries the birthrate for the indigenous peoples is well below the replacement rate of 2.1 %. France, Spain, Italy …they’re all in relentless demographic decline, apart that is from their Muslim communities who have a booming birthrate. We Brits aren’t dying out quite so severely, thanks in the main to the Vicki Pollards who stubbornly insist on perpetuating themselves, much to the annoyance of middle class types who mostly prefer the low or no kids option. So in the lottery of history it’s the ‘European’ Muslims who seem the likely winners. Don’t take my word for it:
‘We’re the ones who will change you’ Norwegian imam Mullah Krekar told the Oslo newspaper ‘Dagbladet’ in 2006. ‘ Just look at the development within Europe, where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children .’ As he summed up, ‘Our way of thinking will prove more powerful than yours.’
‘There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe – without swords, without guns, without conquests. The fifty million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.’ Colonel Gadaffi.
Forgive me ladies and gentlemen if I think that Mullah Krekar and Colonel Gadaffi are more reliable guides to Musim attitudes and intentions then Western liberals and leftists.
DaveyP. Wasn’t so much answering your points as giving some thinking room to them, but it’s interesting that you hold Colonel Gadeffi’s opinion’s so highly. For the record I think think that ideally you should be able to choose which doctor you see. Oh, hang on.
“Choosing a doctor
You can see any of the GPs in the practice, for example you may prefer a male or female GP. Once you have chosen it makes sense to try to stick to one GP so they get to know you and you get to know them.”
Not one of your complaints is anything anybody but the most neurotic could seriously claim as an appeasement to Islam.
You’ll note that I also included the point “what way are special ‘rights’ afforded to Islam that are not open to the rest of us – or which are not open to any other minority faith?”.
Nothing that is ‘open’ to Islam on faith grounds is particularly unique.
A respect for other religious traditions is nothing unique to Islam nor particularly frightening to me.
The polygamy ‘point’ is a distortion of the truth.
You cannot have a polygamopus marriage in this country.
You can come from abroad having been married this way but that’s just tought luck our jurisdiction does not apply globally.
Anyone can ‘live’ as if in a polygamous marriage
(as in live with several women).
Any of us.
Again, myth dressed up as something odd but something I couldn’t care less about and hardly a credible concession of any meaning.
Reactionary absurd Muslims taling about gay people?
We have plenty of reactionary non-Muslims doing similar.
Nothing I’d call an ‘appeasement’.
A handful of idiots protesting?
Please.
What a ludicrous example.
Again nothing that merits the laughably OTT reaction of the tabloids nor anything that justifies the labelling of an entire religious group.
In fact I’m sure you did your best to come up with something substantive but in the end you merely proved my point.
Nothing you’ve brought up is in any way either a serious problem – and certainly not on any serious scale.
I could care less what any loopy futurologist claims, been there heard it all before (many many times).
Did you knw they used to talk about Scots & Irish the same way, or Immigrant black people from the Carribean or Asians from the sub-continent?
Same old hoary scare-story same old load of b*llocks the feeble minded and hate-gang take as Gospel.
It’s pure sh*te.
Immigrant groups have always come in with a higher birth rate and with one, two or three generations are back to the same birth-rates as everyone else as they have the same needs & end up aspiring to the same stuff as everyone else and they do it whilst have to endure the same cost-of-living as trhe rest of us.
Again, it turens out you’re holding up a rather silly ‘example’ and once again despite your best efforts you are showing us nothing to worry about at all.
DaveyP:”Forgive me ladies and gentlemen if I think that Mullah Krekar and Colonel Gadaffi are more reliable guides to Musim attitudes and intentions then Western liberals and leftists.”
You are forgiven. Just this once. But don’t do it again.
I can’t decide if the DM / DE condemning the BNP is a good thing or not. Surely they must be aware that they’re at least partly responsible for the election results? It would be more honest of them to just come out in full support of the nasty bastards.
Davep: as a medical student I can tell you that ANYONE has the right to see a doctor of their own sex not just Muslims. So never fear mate if your scared of women you can have a male doctor every day of the week! Just shows how silly and hypothetical your examples are!
I wasn’t going to say anymore on this particular page but I am so massively pissed off by the last two comments that I can’t contain myself.
@MatthewS…Frankly old bean if I had to choose between being examined by a pompous tosser like you or some burqua-clad, Koran-chanting, ululating Muslim lady doctor then I’d say: ‘All right missus, I’ll undress, sorry I’m not circumcised!’
@ Mail Man…you embody the spirit of complacency vis-a-vis Islam that so defines modern Western culture. Let me tell you sir, Islam grows stronger with every year that passes; there are more Muslim nations, more radical Muslims within those nations, more Muslims (far more) in the West, more radical Muslims etc How will most of these many new Muslims identify themselves, as citizens of the countries where they now reside or as members of the worldwide Islamic community? If you cannot see the implications of that then you live in a liberal cocoon. Take Nigeria, in the 1960’s it was a nation under English Common Law, now half of it is under sharia and the other half is steadily being pushed that way. If the fifty or so million Muslims in Europe become a hundred million, almost certain, then it is QUITE PLAUSIBLE that large parts of Europe will go down the painful and bloody road that much of Nigeria has gone down. But you’re not bothered about that are you Mail Man, oh no, you just prefer to strike liberal poses and advocate doing nothing, in other words appeasement.
DaveyP: Basing your world-view on The Turner Diaries and projecting Europe turning into Nigeria is just you projecting. You simply didn’t demonstrate your points. If you did and you were indeed the Al Gore of cancerous Islam then you’d at least have one ‘oh yeah’ here. You can’t even imagine a muslim female doctor without her being in a burqua chanting from the Koran when, ironically, the front page of the paper discussed shows a woman who’s Muslim immigrant dad had three wives, and she has got her massive whappers out and has got a top job in a male industry. Generations change. I also find it ironic that the Archbishop of York was born in Uganda and believes multicultralism has betrayed the English. Lets send him back.
I think daveyp let the mask slip a little more than he intended there with that foolish, offensive and rather childish nonsense.
I expect we’ll not see too much of him in future – but don’t worry undoubtedly some other (in their own mind) hilariously witty defender of DM ‘values’ will take that slot.
@Stevie H…All right Stevie H., perhaps I shouldn’t have called Matthew S. a pompous tosser, but hey, it’s the Internet and things can get rough. But even so, I’m quite happy to concede that you’re probably a far nicer person than me.
@Mail Man…The failure sir is entirely yours. You answered virtually none of my points. My posts, especially the last one, were full of facts and legitimate extrapolation from those facts. It is your refusal to answer these points that is truly pathetic. And it is not DM values that I am defending but those values of freedom and legality that are the basis of Western civilisation and which I believe to be under mortal threat from Islamic expansionism.
You expect not to see too much of me in the future? Dream on pal! I, daveyp., will continue to hold aloft the banners of freedom and truth in the face of all my critics.
Michael P yes UKIP seem even worse, from what I know of them they seem to base pretty much all of their campaigning on being anti-EU (atleast the BNP branch out abit more), yet they stand for an election and take seats in a political institution they profess to hate?
As for Islam? Its alot of crap (to put it mildly), all religions are. I think all religious institutions should be turned into something thats actually useful, like a shop selling DIY supplies.
Your “extrapolation” is a fraud designed to instill fear and give comfort to those who hate.
That’s all it is.
There’s not a single example of immigrants coming to this country where they maintanined their high initial birthrate and the same thing applies to those of Muslim origin.
Coupled to this is your clear and obvious and frankly laughable scare-mongering which says that all Muslims are some sort of scary fundamentalists out to dismantle all of ‘our’ freedoms and liberties.
No, I was right the first time, you failed and failed miserably.
You thought about it for days and then came in & gave it your best shot and unfortunately you came up with risible nonsense.
Not a single thing of substance.
You then went on a ludicrous rant and abused those who were in discussion with you.
Typical.
Love the ridiculous delusions of grandeur at the end too.
There’s something faintly ridiculous if predictable to it.
Mail Man… you pathetic moron, so, who do you think that white working class people in places like Birmingham and Bradford would agree with, me or you? I’m on their side, the side of the people being colonised. You however, are on the side of the Muslim colonisers! Mail Man, you are a fifth columnist, for a false prophet and for a backward and reactionary religion, one that seeks to rule the world, with the help of useful idiots like yourself.
Reducing yourself to infantile name-calling now is it, eh?
You just keep on getting rather sad and very very predictable.
If your laughable list of imagined ‘appeasements’ is anything to go by then I’m quite sure that your idea of being on the side of “white working class people” is to perpetuate a host of exaggerations, myths and lies regarding a series of imagined benefits that their black British neighbours are getting and they are not.
I note that you just completely ignore the truth that all the waves of immigrants arriving here start off with a birthrate approximate to the one in their country of origin (usually much higher because of a much higher mortality rate) and within a few generations fall back into line with everyone else here.
I guess that just doesn’t suit your hysterical BNP-lite ravings.
The “useful idiot” here would appear to be you, in fact.
You are the one aiding the enemies of the British nation as it is today, the neo-fascist right with your tried & dreary twaddle (never quite out and out racist but so close there’s barely a fag-papers difference) and gullible ignorant fellow-travelling nonsense.
I’m guessing there’s barely a single tall-tale on immigration you’d so much as question.
Members of my family fought and died to keep all the people free here in the UK.
Not just those “white working class” people you seek to patronise and use to hide behind.
“Muslim colonisers”
God almighty.
You need help, maybe a course of treatment for that laughable paranoia you’re developing.
It should also be mentioned that those “Muslim colonisers!” were the single largest ethnic/religious group to come to Britain’s aid in both WW1 & WW2 and suffered the greatest casualties and deaths of any of those not born in the UK.
Of course that part of our history is conveniently forgotten in the offensive and ignorant racist/sectarian cr@p the likes of daveyp and the BNP prefer to propagate.
The fact is that the world’s most ‘colonising’ people are a hell of a lot closer to home – and it’s not the Muslims or any of the immigrant ethnic groups here in the UK today.
daveyp, you ought to have done with it and pi$$ off to ‘Der Sturmer’ or where-ever the BNP and their ilk hang out, you can take each other seriously & wind each other up with your stupid ludicrous tales of ‘how the UK is lost to the foreigners’.
BOOBS!
i can’t stand liz jones, but the top strapline about fattening her up doesn’t sound very responsible. it certainly seems to be a bit flippant about anorexia.
They’ll need to land on the forest moon of Endor first.
*one* Final Strike? Does this mean that if this fails they’ll all give up?
And Anorexia for 40 years? Hmm… this is the same Liz Jones that wrote “I became anorexic at about the age of 11, an illness that continued into my late twenties.” – The Daily Mail has got *really* bad at maths recently.
Sounds a bit too much like the Final Solution to me!
The DM is turning its coverage of the Euro -elections into a ‘bash Gordon Brown’ exercise. Personally I hope that Brown hangs in there and defies this attempted media putsch. The real significance of the elections is the rout of the Left all over Europe. No surprises there. After all, what does the Left have to offer? More immigration from the third world and more appeasement of Islam. Wow, what great vote-winners! What Gordon Brown should do now is to drastically curtail immigration, which has been at the expense of traditional Labour supporters; say to the Muzzies… sorry!…our Islamic brethren, ‘it’s up to you to fit in with us, not the other way round’, and do more, much more, to help the poorest members of society, young or old, employed or unemployed. That way I think he could actually win the next election.
Dammit, johnnyh beat me to the Star Wars gag.
Shot the little hole in the death star, that should do it.
Loving the Star Wars gag johnnyh! Well done for thinking it up! Remember to alert the Ewoks and prepare them for battle first and Darth Brown should be history!
Also, as much as I dislike Liz Jones, It does sound disgusting what the Mail doing with her. Turning her illness into a game and forcing (not ‘challenging’ as they say) her to potentially damage her system. What are they going to do tomorrow, get one of their ‘journalists’ who has a nut allegy and run a story saying “Find out what happened when we made him eat a snickers bar”?
Anyway, why aren’t todays front pages up? They’re both piles of shit and I really wanted to bash them both.
I’ve got some bad news for you, Daveyp. It’s bad news for me also, since I agree with you to a degree.
The government has a maximum of eleven months to instigate the changes you’d like to see, and I’m pretty sure that even if that were to happen, the Tories would still get in after the next general election.
Mind you, you’d see an end of sorts to the appeasment of Islam (NB: Michael Gove has said that there’ll be more faith schools after a Tory victory) and probably less immigration. You’d also hear less about multi-culturalism, but I doubt there’d be much done to ‘help the poorest members of society, young or old, employed or unemployed’. Sorry about that, old chap.
Surely “More faith schools” could mean schools promoting any religion (not very helpful whichever particular fairy story they’re into in my opinion) though?
And your Tories secretly quite like immigrants because they’re the only people who’ll work for sod all in their factories and rent their slummy flats.
George, my good man, you are right to a degree. However, if Michael Gove is correct and a new Tory goverment permits faith schools to be established, some of them will probably be Islamic schools. This would brown off Daveyp and anyone else who thinks that the Left does too much to appease muslims. Since I don’t like faith schools of any type, I’ll be annoyed too.
Regarding the Tories’ relationship with immigrants: some time ago the infamous Tory David Willetts wrote that immigration could be compared to oil in a car; there has to be enough to keep the engine (or economy) running and too much will ruin the car/country. In the article Willetts wrote for the Torygraph, he didn’t state how much oil/immigration would be too much.
Sounds like you’re completely agreeing with me rather than to a degree, John!
And in my view it’s not the Left that do too much to appease Muslims but rather the PC, play it safe Centre.
Anyone else a bit disappointed by the protesters who egged Nick Griffin? I can understand people wanting to have a go at him but a more dignified opposition would have been better.
In the words of someone or other (I forget who), I don’t agree with what the pillock’s saying but I’ll always defend his right to say it.
Maybe he’ll have to start making Bin Laden- style home videos to communicate with his less well off “Foot Soldiers” and deliver them to the BBC!
I read Liz Jones’ article. The only redeeming thing was the final two paragraphs, where she basically said “don’t start starving yourself”. Unfortunately, everything prior to that was pretty much glorifying and glamorising anorexia.
She’s just awful, as well. She’s a sort-of vegan – not even trying, really, because she eats eggs (though not her own chickens’ eggs, because that’s “cannibalistic”).
Although I can’t stand Nick Grffin, I don’t think eggs should have been thrown at him. There are better ways to make one’s oppostition to this twit known.
I believe you’re thinking of Voltaire, George.
“In the words of someone or other (I forget who), I don’t agree with what the pillock’s saying but I’ll always defend his right to say it.”
I don’t think that’s applicable here – sure, he has the right to say it, in the sense that I don’t think it should be illegal, but I don’t think a few protestors throwing eggs is criminalising his speech. (Not that I think throwing eggs should be legal, but I don’t think it’s a free speech issue.)
Also, freedom of speech doesn’t entail being given national coverage for your views. A few eggs don’t prevent his right to his beliefs, they were specifically targetted solely at the press conference. How much coverage were the anti-fascist protestors being given for their views, before they threw the eggs?)
Surely the protestors got his (Griffin’s) press conference more coverage though, I doubt many of the national media outlets would have covered it otherwise.
“appeasment of Islam”
Just what does this mean, exactly?
How?
In what way are special ‘rights’ afforded to Islam that are not open to the rest of us – or which are not open to any other minority faith?
I hearing people mentioning this phrase from time to time but they never can actually explain what it’s supposed to mean.
It sounds to me like the sort of b*llocks the BNP spout but which doesn’t bear a moments honest examination.
We were talking in the pub last night about Griffin.. there’s a fair amount of anger that we’re being ‘represented’ by him (general consensus is they should have hardboiled the eggs as that would hurt more). I genuinely think if he walked into some parts of the city he wouldn’t get out again… the feeling is that strong.
Scary thing is the BNP now have a source of funding they didn’t have before. How much racist literature is going to go on ‘expenses’?
Round here anyone who admits to not voting gets a stern talking to and buys their own drinks.. interesting thing about PR is that not only does every vote count but every non-vote counts too, hence the result we got. One way to increase turnout at the next election I guess.
Von Brunn – the Neo-Nazi gunman with links to the BNP who shot up the Holocaust Museum in NY and murdered a security guard in today’s DM (12:06:09). I have tried to post three times a simple question without sucess. Why is this man not being described a terrorist? Oh right, I get it, Nazi white supremacists from the US don’t do terrorism, it’s only the likes of Irish and Islamic blokes in beards. And for that matter why are the comments criticising America’s crazy gun laws being flamed in red arrows. Something a bit sinister going on here I think, or maybe the DM just can’t escape from its dubious historical associations!?
Can someone help me i’m abit confused on a political issue regarding the BNP. They have won 2 European seats, right? But arn’t the BNP heavily anti-EU? So isn’t it abit, well bloody stupid, to be an MEP for the EU if they hate it? Or have I got it all horribly mixed up?
@ Mail Man…the appeasement of Islam? Well here goes: liberals and leftists condemn workingmen’s clubs or gentlemen’s clubs that bar women, yet say it’s all right for mosques to practice segregation, so sexism is OK if it’s on a religious basis…if I daveyp. insisted on being examined only by a male doctor I’d risk being expelled from my surgery for sexist behaviour, yet if a Muslim male did so on religious grounds he’d be allowed to…polygamy is going on in places like Birmingham and Bradford and the police do nothing about it, yet if a non-Muslim male marries several women he’ll get done for bigamy and do a long stretch in jail…if a gay man says that he thinks Islam is a poison in society he’ll almost certainly be prosecuted for incitement to hatred, but Sir Iqbal Sacranie makes hateful comments about gay men on the ‘Today’ programme and is not prosecuted…if a Muslim religious event were picketed by chanting fascists the police would arrest and charge the chanters in question, yet when a group of Islamic fanatics chant abuse at British soldiers marching through Luton the only people to get arrested are some guys who dare to answer the Muslims back!…if a neo-Nazi urged his followers to go out and kill Muslims he would (quite rightly) be arrested and charged, yet during the Salman Rushdie affair not one of the imams in Britain who urged their followers to kill Rushdie was charged…
I could go on and on but it’s getting late and I think that I’ve made my point.
@Powertotheimagination – Just sit down and have a cup of tea, it’ll pass! But I think it’s UKIP who’ve got the real problem of being like strongly anti-EU, and having MEPs in the European Parliament. Bloody stupid innit?
DavyP – hello sailor – Islam is a poison. RIght, where’s my law suit? If you’re in a surgery insisting on having a male doctor to the point of being thrown out, you are not being thrown out for being sexist. You’re being thrown out for being a wanker. There’s also a difference between political protest and racial abuse and if you heard what was shouted at that protest you’d know. And as for the Satanic Verses – well the author wasn’t arrested for writing a book that angered many Muslims and millions were spent protecting him. Doesn’t that go against your point at bit? The leader of the BNP denies the holocaust – isn’t that against the law too? It’s all weird, innit.
@ DavyP
There are a lot of “would”s in your post. Can I use the benefit of your 100% accurate prediction of future events to ask what tomorrow’s lottery numbers will be?
And what would they be if I were muslim?
@Jswindle…You artfully avoid answering most of the points I make. Take just one: do you think that Muslims have the right to insist on only being seen by a doctor who is the same sex as them? And if so, do you think that non-Muslims have the same right?
@Stevie H…Alas, I cannot predict the lottery numbers. BUT, I can do some number-predicting for you. In most European countries the birthrate for the indigenous peoples is well below the replacement rate of 2.1 %. France, Spain, Italy …they’re all in relentless demographic decline, apart that is from their Muslim communities who have a booming birthrate. We Brits aren’t dying out quite so severely, thanks in the main to the Vicki Pollards who stubbornly insist on perpetuating themselves, much to the annoyance of middle class types who mostly prefer the low or no kids option. So in the lottery of history it’s the ‘European’ Muslims who seem the likely winners. Don’t take my word for it:
‘We’re the ones who will change you’ Norwegian imam Mullah Krekar told the Oslo newspaper ‘Dagbladet’ in 2006. ‘ Just look at the development within Europe, where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children .’ As he summed up, ‘Our way of thinking will prove more powerful than yours.’
‘There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe – without swords, without guns, without conquests. The fifty million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.’ Colonel Gadaffi.
Forgive me ladies and gentlemen if I think that Mullah Krekar and Colonel Gadaffi are more reliable guides to Musim attitudes and intentions then Western liberals and leftists.
DaveyP. Wasn’t so much answering your points as giving some thinking room to them, but it’s interesting that you hold Colonel Gadeffi’s opinion’s so highly. For the record I think think that ideally you should be able to choose which doctor you see. Oh, hang on.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/talking_to_your_doctor/gp_choosing.shtml
“Choosing a doctor
You can see any of the GPs in the practice, for example you may prefer a male or female GP. Once you have chosen it makes sense to try to stick to one GP so they get to know you and you get to know them.”
daveyp
Sorry but you failed.
Not one of your complaints is anything anybody but the most neurotic could seriously claim as an appeasement to Islam.
You’ll note that I also included the point “what way are special ‘rights’ afforded to Islam that are not open to the rest of us – or which are not open to any other minority faith?”.
Nothing that is ‘open’ to Islam on faith grounds is particularly unique.
A respect for other religious traditions is nothing unique to Islam nor particularly frightening to me.
The polygamy ‘point’ is a distortion of the truth.
You cannot have a polygamopus marriage in this country.
You can come from abroad having been married this way but that’s just tought luck our jurisdiction does not apply globally.
Anyone can ‘live’ as if in a polygamous marriage
(as in live with several women).
Any of us.
Again, myth dressed up as something odd but something I couldn’t care less about and hardly a credible concession of any meaning.
Reactionary absurd Muslims taling about gay people?
We have plenty of reactionary non-Muslims doing similar.
Nothing I’d call an ‘appeasement’.
A handful of idiots protesting?
Please.
What a ludicrous example.
Again nothing that merits the laughably OTT reaction of the tabloids nor anything that justifies the labelling of an entire religious group.
In fact I’m sure you did your best to come up with something substantive but in the end you merely proved my point.
Nothing you’ve brought up is in any way either a serious problem – and certainly not on any serious scale.
So, I ask again, what “appeasement”?
Oh and that birth-rate BS?
I could care less what any loopy futurologist claims, been there heard it all before (many many times).
Did you knw they used to talk about Scots & Irish the same way, or Immigrant black people from the Carribean or Asians from the sub-continent?
Same old hoary scare-story same old load of b*llocks the feeble minded and hate-gang take as Gospel.
It’s pure sh*te.
Immigrant groups have always come in with a higher birth rate and with one, two or three generations are back to the same birth-rates as everyone else as they have the same needs & end up aspiring to the same stuff as everyone else and they do it whilst have to endure the same cost-of-living as trhe rest of us.
Again, it turens out you’re holding up a rather silly ‘example’ and once again despite your best efforts you are showing us nothing to worry about at all.
DaveyP:”Forgive me ladies and gentlemen if I think that Mullah Krekar and Colonel Gadaffi are more reliable guides to Musim attitudes and intentions then Western liberals and leftists.”
You are forgiven. Just this once. But don’t do it again.
I can’t decide if the DM / DE condemning the BNP is a good thing or not. Surely they must be aware that they’re at least partly responsible for the election results? It would be more honest of them to just come out in full support of the nasty bastards.
Davep: as a medical student I can tell you that ANYONE has the right to see a doctor of their own sex not just Muslims. So never fear mate if your scared of women you can have a male doctor every day of the week! Just shows how silly and hypothetical your examples are!
Yeah, all that heat and noise about how we’re supposed to be ‘appeasing Islam’ and that’s the best that can be cast up?
Pathetic.
I wasn’t going to say anymore on this particular page but I am so massively pissed off by the last two comments that I can’t contain myself.
@MatthewS…Frankly old bean if I had to choose between being examined by a pompous tosser like you or some burqua-clad, Koran-chanting, ululating Muslim lady doctor then I’d say: ‘All right missus, I’ll undress, sorry I’m not circumcised!’
@ Mail Man…you embody the spirit of complacency vis-a-vis Islam that so defines modern Western culture. Let me tell you sir, Islam grows stronger with every year that passes; there are more Muslim nations, more radical Muslims within those nations, more Muslims (far more) in the West, more radical Muslims etc How will most of these many new Muslims identify themselves, as citizens of the countries where they now reside or as members of the worldwide Islamic community? If you cannot see the implications of that then you live in a liberal cocoon. Take Nigeria, in the 1960’s it was a nation under English Common Law, now half of it is under sharia and the other half is steadily being pushed that way. If the fifty or so million Muslims in Europe become a hundred million, almost certain, then it is QUITE PLAUSIBLE that large parts of Europe will go down the painful and bloody road that much of Nigeria has gone down. But you’re not bothered about that are you Mail Man, oh no, you just prefer to strike liberal poses and advocate doing nothing, in other words appeasement.
DaveyP: Basing your world-view on The Turner Diaries and projecting Europe turning into Nigeria is just you projecting. You simply didn’t demonstrate your points. If you did and you were indeed the Al Gore of cancerous Islam then you’d at least have one ‘oh yeah’ here. You can’t even imagine a muslim female doctor without her being in a burqua chanting from the Koran when, ironically, the front page of the paper discussed shows a woman who’s Muslim immigrant dad had three wives, and she has got her massive whappers out and has got a top job in a male industry. Generations change. I also find it ironic that the Archbishop of York was born in Uganda and believes multicultralism has betrayed the English. Lets send him back.
Pathetic daveyp, even for you.
You really ought to be aware that a fact-free opinionated rant is no substitute for substance.
You failed.
@ DaveyP:
I think you lost the credibility when you started going on about a “pompous tosser” and a “burqua-clad, Koran-chanting, ululating Muslim lady doctor”.
There was no need for either of those.
I think daveyp let the mask slip a little more than he intended there with that foolish, offensive and rather childish nonsense.
I expect we’ll not see too much of him in future – but don’t worry undoubtedly some other (in their own mind) hilariously witty defender of DM ‘values’ will take that slot.
@Stevie H…All right Stevie H., perhaps I shouldn’t have called Matthew S. a pompous tosser, but hey, it’s the Internet and things can get rough. But even so, I’m quite happy to concede that you’re probably a far nicer person than me.
@Mail Man…The failure sir is entirely yours. You answered virtually none of my points. My posts, especially the last one, were full of facts and legitimate extrapolation from those facts. It is your refusal to answer these points that is truly pathetic. And it is not DM values that I am defending but those values of freedom and legality that are the basis of Western civilisation and which I believe to be under mortal threat from Islamic expansionism.
You expect not to see too much of me in the future? Dream on pal! I, daveyp., will continue to hold aloft the banners of freedom and truth in the face of all my critics.
Michael P yes UKIP seem even worse, from what I know of them they seem to base pretty much all of their campaigning on being anti-EU (atleast the BNP branch out abit more), yet they stand for an election and take seats in a political institution they profess to hate?
As for Islam? Its alot of crap (to put it mildly), all religions are. I think all religious institutions should be turned into something thats actually useful, like a shop selling DIY supplies.
daveyp
Your “extrapolation” is a fraud designed to instill fear and give comfort to those who hate.
That’s all it is.
There’s not a single example of immigrants coming to this country where they maintanined their high initial birthrate and the same thing applies to those of Muslim origin.
Coupled to this is your clear and obvious and frankly laughable scare-mongering which says that all Muslims are some sort of scary fundamentalists out to dismantle all of ‘our’ freedoms and liberties.
No, I was right the first time, you failed and failed miserably.
You thought about it for days and then came in & gave it your best shot and unfortunately you came up with risible nonsense.
Not a single thing of substance.
You then went on a ludicrous rant and abused those who were in discussion with you.
Typical.
Love the ridiculous delusions of grandeur at the end too.
There’s something faintly ridiculous if predictable to it.
Mail Man… you pathetic moron, so, who do you think that white working class people in places like Birmingham and Bradford would agree with, me or you? I’m on their side, the side of the people being colonised. You however, are on the side of the Muslim colonisers! Mail Man, you are a fifth columnist, for a false prophet and for a backward and reactionary religion, one that seeks to rule the world, with the help of useful idiots like yourself.
Ha ha ha ha ha
Reducing yourself to infantile name-calling now is it, eh?
You just keep on getting rather sad and very very predictable.
If your laughable list of imagined ‘appeasements’ is anything to go by then I’m quite sure that your idea of being on the side of “white working class people” is to perpetuate a host of exaggerations, myths and lies regarding a series of imagined benefits that their black British neighbours are getting and they are not.
I note that you just completely ignore the truth that all the waves of immigrants arriving here start off with a birthrate approximate to the one in their country of origin (usually much higher because of a much higher mortality rate) and within a few generations fall back into line with everyone else here.
I guess that just doesn’t suit your hysterical BNP-lite ravings.
The “useful idiot” here would appear to be you, in fact.
You are the one aiding the enemies of the British nation as it is today, the neo-fascist right with your tried & dreary twaddle (never quite out and out racist but so close there’s barely a fag-papers difference) and gullible ignorant fellow-travelling nonsense.
I’m guessing there’s barely a single tall-tale on immigration you’d so much as question.
Members of my family fought and died to keep all the people free here in the UK.
Not just those “white working class” people you seek to patronise and use to hide behind.
“Muslim colonisers”
God almighty.
You need help, maybe a course of treatment for that laughable paranoia you’re developing.
It should also be mentioned that those “Muslim colonisers!” were the single largest ethnic/religious group to come to Britain’s aid in both WW1 & WW2 and suffered the greatest casualties and deaths of any of those not born in the UK.
Of course that part of our history is conveniently forgotten in the offensive and ignorant racist/sectarian cr@p the likes of daveyp and the BNP prefer to propagate.
The fact is that the world’s most ‘colonising’ people are a hell of a lot closer to home – and it’s not the Muslims or any of the immigrant ethnic groups here in the UK today.
daveyp, you ought to have done with it and pi$$ off to ‘Der Sturmer’ or where-ever the BNP and their ilk hang out, you can take each other seriously & wind each other up with your stupid ludicrous tales of ‘how the UK is lost to the foreigners’.
I guess everyone beat me to a death star joke.. oh well…
UKIP come third?! IT’S A TRAP!!!