Free DVD : check
Attack on a minister : check
Unflattering pic of said minister smiling – or “laughing at the great british taxpayer” : check
Doctors-are-rubbish article : check
BBC-is-corrupt article : check
Fiasco : check
If we’d had the weather and something about wheelie bins, it would have been the jackpot.
Thank God someone will reign in that leninist gay rights organisation the BBC. I mean, the Tories are practically socialists now themsleves (green!? c’mon, did we fight at Trafalgar for this!) but at least they’re taking a stand and taking on the disabled-creche organising fanatics at the BEEB who use our income taxes to spread islam and kiddy fiddling.
For once, the mail have reported on something that isn’t about bins or taxes. What the attorney-general did was wrong, so she should comply under the same laws against illegal immigrants levelled against businesses.
The Loans fiasco happens every year, the consertatives idea on student loans was exactly the same and all though it changed under numerous Tory Leaders, the 1997 model was actually a lot fairer than any Tory model on fees that followed which included models such as:
“Borrow as much as you need”
“Commercial loans with interest rates at a typical commercial rate”
“Courses determined by the government would come with money off or indeed cost more” (Both have been put forward in the period of David Cameron)
I myself agree that something should be paid back, that’s why i agreed with a graduate tax, which by far weighs out anything that is or has been proposed, but on the fee issue while Labour sits on the centre right the Consertatives seem to sit on the right and drift ever further from the centre.
Three cheers to the Mail for exposing this story. If the attorney general cannot practice the laws she helps to draw up then should she still be in her post? But Marcs obviously thinks the story should not be discussed because the mininster happens to be black and female. Sounds like you are the one who is racist and sexist!
One fifth of young Britons can’t get work, unemployment has passed two million and yet the number of jobs going to foreigners since New Labour came to power has now reached 3.7 million. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are still coming to this country to get work which is an outrage. And yes Alex, her cleaner SHOULD have been white and British.
Visiting this site is hugely educational for me though. It makes me realise just why the British Left is in such a state of crisis.
Neander – how many white, British people would be willing to work as cleaners? And how many British employers would be willing to pay a high enough wage to attract white, British workers?
Don’t blame immigrants for taking advantage of the opportunities available. I know many unemployed white Britons who refuse to take work such as cleaning, waitressing etc because they think its beneath them – immigrants are not taking jobs away from people, they are willing to take on jobs that other people refuse.
And finally – you mention that white, British people should get priority for jobs. What about all the non-white British people? Or does your definition of nationality only focus on skin colour, regardless of actual immigration status?
…Elena…I am quite happy to accept non-white people as British PROVIDING that their first loyalty is to this country. If Jamaicans’ first loyalty is to Jamaica or Pakistanis’ first loyalty to Pakistan then no, I do not regard them as British. In the same way, if I were French or Spanish I would only regard British ex-pats as my fellow-countrymen if their first loyalty was to their new homeland.
The biggest mistake in the recent wave of immigration to this country has been to allow millions of people British passports who have little intrinsic loyalty to Britain. I think this to be sheer folly. And yes, many of these immigrants do jobs that Brits don’t want to do, fair point. But in that case we should follow the Saudi example. Their immigrants are not given equal status with Saudis and are only tolerated for as long as they are needed. In my opinion the Saudis show far more intelligence in this matter than do the Europeans. Which at least proves that I don’t believe in white superiority!
>”The biggest mistake in the recent wave of immigration to this country has been to allow millions of people British passports who have little intrinsic loyalty to Britain. I think this to be sheer folly.”
You’re not going to get “intrinsic loyalty to Britain” in any first-generation immigrants; that comes with the territory. By “intrinsic loyalty” I presume you mean a sense of British identity which is not something people soak-up the second they land on these shores; any sense of identity is going to have to be nurtured, it can’t be gained through some kind of “test” or “loyalty pledge” or any of the other nonsenses people have cooked-up to pacify anti-immigrant feeling. If you’re going to have immigration then you’re going to get people living here whose sense of identity lies elsewhere and will for probably most if not all of their lives. As you say, British ex-pats overseas aren’t going to develop a sense of loyalty to Spain, France or wherever else they’ve chosen to live and work and would probably be quite offended if someone demanded they do so or go home.
>”But in that case we should follow the Saudi example. Their immigrants are not given equal status with Saudis and are only tolerated for as long as they are needed”
Are you sure you don’t mean “migrant workers” rather than “immigrants”?
…Charlie…Not exploit, pay them a fair wage BUT don’t give them equal status, let alone British passports. And yes, most certainly boot them out when they are no longer needed, at the point of a bayonet if needs be. As for your line about what does loyalty to one’s country mean, well, if you even have to ask then there is little point in replying. But I will grant Charlie that you are truly a man of the left, ie with no patriotic feeling. Which is one of the main reasons why the white working class, overwhelmingly patriotic, have turned away from the left. Just be grateful Charlie that very few working class people visit this site; reading some of the comments posted here would drive them into the arms of the far-right.
…Mattie…No, of course loyalty cannot be demanded or imposed. But likewise, British passports should not be demanded by newcomers to these shores. They should only be earned. And yes, re: the Saudi example I should have written ‘migrant workers’. They allow hardly any immigrants as such, which is why Saudi Arabia still has such a strong sense of national identity and is still such a fiercely independent country. I can’t help admiring them, even though they are Muslims.
The white man’s problem is that he creates societies that are generally far preferable to most of the alternatives and is then foolish enough to allow in millions of unasimilable racial and cultural aliens. This is not really multi-culturalism but rather replacement. It’s as if Western civilisation is voluntarily allowing itself to be swept away. Even though I am a white man myself I find myself despising the white race more and more.
>Just be grateful Charlie that very few working class people visit this site; reading some of the comments posted here would drive them into the arms of the far-right.
As a student with a bank balance of minus £1399, no extension on my overdraft, a loan that only covers my accomodation fees and therefore one whole english pound to spend until i get paid i am getting very upset at suggestions that i should be made to pay more money.
It’s entirely fair enough for people with full time jobs to pay regular rates of interest, but students already have one, being a student.
Neander – I’m getting a little confused by your insistence that we shouldn’t give migrants British passports – you want immigrants to develop a loyalty to this country but then you also want to refuse them any kind of citizenship, thereby reducing any sense of national identity/loyalty they would feel to the country? You also seem to think that every immigrant automatically gets a British passport – that is not the case. EU workers of course have the right to enter the country by virtue of their home country passport, migrant workers and other immigrants may get working visas/indefinite leave to remain etc but they certainly do not get British passports from the get-go. And as for your comments about the Saudi system – on the one hand, you don’t want anything that dilutes ‘Britishness’, on the other you want to ape countries that you deem inferior in other respects. The right’s problem would seem to be a) its inability to make its mind up about what it wants and b) its inability to get facts straight, instead confusing them with vitriol.
>But likewise, British passports should not be demanded by newcomers to these shores. They should only be earned.
Earned how? Like I said, you’re not going to get people who grew up somewhere else to abandon all sense of attachment to their home country and if you demanded they do so beforehand then we wouldn’t have any immigration at all. There are people who live here now who call themselves, and are, British and whose grandfathers and great-grandfathers considered themselves Irish, or Norwegian, or German, or Australian. A generation, possibly two, that feels a sense of identity with an “old country” is part and parcel of immigration but it doesn’t last.
>They allow hardly any immigrants as such, which is why Saudi Arabia still has such a strong sense of national identity and is still such a fiercely independent country.
It’s also a rightwing ultra-conservative dictatorship and its disdain for foreign culture, far from being admirable, is a reflection of the Saudi state’s social and political authoritarianism.
“on the one hand, you don’t want anything that dilutes ‘Britishness’, on the other you want to ape countries that you deem inferior in other respects.”
An interesting thing about some British rightwingers (more specifically, some on the far-right) is that they profess to fear and dislike muslim immigration to the UK and yet have a tendency to admire a large number of characteristics of conservative Islam in a detatched way.
Saudi Arabia has a sense of independence and a strong identity because they hardly let immigrants in? Hows about Saudi Arabia hardly lets any immigrants in because they have a strong sense of independence and identity, and not a great need for immigrant labour, and are a massive family? No, that’s a bit simplistic too.
How about why would anyone like Neander would really want to live in a country like Saudi Arabia anyway, when Dubai has Jim Davidson.
Anyway, I’m still amazed that anyone can state that the attorney general can be black, but by heck her cleaners should be white. I’m not racist, but….
I wasn’t going to comment any further, feeling that you’ve had enough of me on this particular page, but I can’t resist it.
…Matty…I’m sure that you are the commenter formerly known as Zagrebo, hailing from Eastern Europe. If you are now resident in the UK then YES, your first loyalty should be to Britain. And if you’re still living in some Balkan fastness then you’ve really got a cheek saying what the UK immigration policy should be.
…Elena…you’re clearly a very intelligent lady but oh my, I’m glad that you’re not the Home Secretary. If you were, then by now the world and his wife would be living in England!
…JSwindle…Saudi Arabia has a HUGE need for immigrant labour; dark-skinned immigrants to do the menial tasks and light-skinned immigrants to do the complex ones. When P. J. O’Rourke covered the First Gulf War he and his fellow journos had a standing bet as to who would be the first to see a Saudi male handling anything heavier than a wad of banknotes. Nobody won the bet. And I didn’t know that Jim Davidson was in Dubai, not that I was ever a fan of his. I do have a soft spot though for the late Bernard Manning. It might not surprise you to know JSwindle that one of my favourite little daydreams is that Bernard Manning became PM in 1997 instead of Tony Blair. If he had then personally I think that Britain today would be a far better and happier country. I appreciate though that few if any other commenters on this site would agree with me on that one.
The Tories fall in with Mail policy on the BBC.
Free DVD : check
Attack on a minister : check
Unflattering pic of said minister smiling – or “laughing at the great british taxpayer” : check
Doctors-are-rubbish article : check
BBC-is-corrupt article : check
Fiasco : check
If we’d had the weather and something about wheelie bins, it would have been the jackpot.
Thank God someone will reign in that leninist gay rights organisation the BBC. I mean, the Tories are practically socialists now themsleves (green!? c’mon, did we fight at Trafalgar for this!) but at least they’re taking a stand and taking on the disabled-creche organising fanatics at the BEEB who use our income taxes to spread islam and kiddy fiddling.
I believe she owns a wheelie bin too.
‘Students caught in privatised university finance nightmare’……..who needs the Tories with ‘New Labour’ in charge? Would we even notice the difference?
For once, the mail have reported on something that isn’t about bins or taxes. What the attorney-general did was wrong, so she should comply under the same laws against illegal immigrants levelled against businesses.
“18 breast cancer victims” – is that only 9 women?
Rein in the BBC = Impartiality will disappear
The Loans fiasco happens every year, the consertatives idea on student loans was exactly the same and all though it changed under numerous Tory Leaders, the 1997 model was actually a lot fairer than any Tory model on fees that followed which included models such as:
“Borrow as much as you need”
“Commercial loans with interest rates at a typical commercial rate”
“Courses determined by the government would come with money off or indeed cost more” (Both have been put forward in the period of David Cameron)
I myself agree that something should be paid back, that’s why i agreed with a graduate tax, which by far weighs out anything that is or has been proposed, but on the fee issue while Labour sits on the centre right the Consertatives seem to sit on the right and drift ever further from the centre.
I wonder if the Attorney General was a white man, would this have been on the front page? Daily Mail racism and sexism in action.
Mail discovers the concept of false negatives.
Just don’t tell them about false positives.
I assume it’s the NHS’s fault that there’s no such thing as a 100% reliable test?
“if the Attorney General was a white man, would this have been on the front page”
So long as the cleaner wasn’t white, it still would have been.
Three cheers to the Mail for exposing this story. If the attorney general cannot practice the laws she helps to draw up then should she still be in her post? But Marcs obviously thinks the story should not be discussed because the mininster happens to be black and female. Sounds like you are the one who is racist and sexist!
One fifth of young Britons can’t get work, unemployment has passed two million and yet the number of jobs going to foreigners since New Labour came to power has now reached 3.7 million. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are still coming to this country to get work which is an outrage. And yes Alex, her cleaner SHOULD have been white and British.
Visiting this site is hugely educational for me though. It makes me realise just why the British Left is in such a state of crisis.
And reading your posts Neander reminds me how hilarious the views of the Mail and the Right are.
Neander: “And yes Alex, her cleaner SHOULD have been white and British.”
Why not Black and British? Why not White and a legal immigrant?
Neander – how many white, British people would be willing to work as cleaners? And how many British employers would be willing to pay a high enough wage to attract white, British workers?
Don’t blame immigrants for taking advantage of the opportunities available. I know many unemployed white Britons who refuse to take work such as cleaning, waitressing etc because they think its beneath them – immigrants are not taking jobs away from people, they are willing to take on jobs that other people refuse.
And finally – you mention that white, British people should get priority for jobs. What about all the non-white British people? Or does your definition of nationality only focus on skin colour, regardless of actual immigration status?
…Elena…I am quite happy to accept non-white people as British PROVIDING that their first loyalty is to this country. If Jamaicans’ first loyalty is to Jamaica or Pakistanis’ first loyalty to Pakistan then no, I do not regard them as British. In the same way, if I were French or Spanish I would only regard British ex-pats as my fellow-countrymen if their first loyalty was to their new homeland.
The biggest mistake in the recent wave of immigration to this country has been to allow millions of people British passports who have little intrinsic loyalty to Britain. I think this to be sheer folly. And yes, many of these immigrants do jobs that Brits don’t want to do, fair point. But in that case we should follow the Saudi example. Their immigrants are not given equal status with Saudis and are only tolerated for as long as they are needed. In my opinion the Saudis show far more intelligence in this matter than do the Europeans. Which at least proves that I don’t believe in white superiority!
In other words, we should exploit our immigrants and boot them out when necessary. Yes, very mature approach, can’t think why it hasn’t caught on.
As for loyalty to the country, what does that even mean?!
>”The biggest mistake in the recent wave of immigration to this country has been to allow millions of people British passports who have little intrinsic loyalty to Britain. I think this to be sheer folly.”
You’re not going to get “intrinsic loyalty to Britain” in any first-generation immigrants; that comes with the territory. By “intrinsic loyalty” I presume you mean a sense of British identity which is not something people soak-up the second they land on these shores; any sense of identity is going to have to be nurtured, it can’t be gained through some kind of “test” or “loyalty pledge” or any of the other nonsenses people have cooked-up to pacify anti-immigrant feeling. If you’re going to have immigration then you’re going to get people living here whose sense of identity lies elsewhere and will for probably most if not all of their lives. As you say, British ex-pats overseas aren’t going to develop a sense of loyalty to Spain, France or wherever else they’ve chosen to live and work and would probably be quite offended if someone demanded they do so or go home.
>”But in that case we should follow the Saudi example. Their immigrants are not given equal status with Saudis and are only tolerated for as long as they are needed”
Are you sure you don’t mean “migrant workers” rather than “immigrants”?
…Charlie…Not exploit, pay them a fair wage BUT don’t give them equal status, let alone British passports. And yes, most certainly boot them out when they are no longer needed, at the point of a bayonet if needs be. As for your line about what does loyalty to one’s country mean, well, if you even have to ask then there is little point in replying. But I will grant Charlie that you are truly a man of the left, ie with no patriotic feeling. Which is one of the main reasons why the white working class, overwhelmingly patriotic, have turned away from the left. Just be grateful Charlie that very few working class people visit this site; reading some of the comments posted here would drive them into the arms of the far-right.
…Mattie…No, of course loyalty cannot be demanded or imposed. But likewise, British passports should not be demanded by newcomers to these shores. They should only be earned. And yes, re: the Saudi example I should have written ‘migrant workers’. They allow hardly any immigrants as such, which is why Saudi Arabia still has such a strong sense of national identity and is still such a fiercely independent country. I can’t help admiring them, even though they are Muslims.
The white man’s problem is that he creates societies that are generally far preferable to most of the alternatives and is then foolish enough to allow in millions of unasimilable racial and cultural aliens. This is not really multi-culturalism but rather replacement. It’s as if Western civilisation is voluntarily allowing itself to be swept away. Even though I am a white man myself I find myself despising the white race more and more.
>Just be grateful Charlie that very few working class people visit this site; reading some of the comments posted here would drive them into the arms of the far-right.
Is that not already the job of the Daily Mail?
Neander – sorry to burst your bubble but I am from a working class background. Clearly I’m a working class traitor.
As a student with a bank balance of minus £1399, no extension on my overdraft, a loan that only covers my accomodation fees and therefore one whole english pound to spend until i get paid i am getting very upset at suggestions that i should be made to pay more money.
It’s entirely fair enough for people with full time jobs to pay regular rates of interest, but students already have one, being a student.
The Great Patriotic War was fought by the Right Wing? Next time I see Antony Beevor I’ll have a word.
Neander – I’m getting a little confused by your insistence that we shouldn’t give migrants British passports – you want immigrants to develop a loyalty to this country but then you also want to refuse them any kind of citizenship, thereby reducing any sense of national identity/loyalty they would feel to the country? You also seem to think that every immigrant automatically gets a British passport – that is not the case. EU workers of course have the right to enter the country by virtue of their home country passport, migrant workers and other immigrants may get working visas/indefinite leave to remain etc but they certainly do not get British passports from the get-go. And as for your comments about the Saudi system – on the one hand, you don’t want anything that dilutes ‘Britishness’, on the other you want to ape countries that you deem inferior in other respects. The right’s problem would seem to be a) its inability to make its mind up about what it wants and b) its inability to get facts straight, instead confusing them with vitriol.
>But likewise, British passports should not be demanded by newcomers to these shores. They should only be earned.
Earned how? Like I said, you’re not going to get people who grew up somewhere else to abandon all sense of attachment to their home country and if you demanded they do so beforehand then we wouldn’t have any immigration at all. There are people who live here now who call themselves, and are, British and whose grandfathers and great-grandfathers considered themselves Irish, or Norwegian, or German, or Australian. A generation, possibly two, that feels a sense of identity with an “old country” is part and parcel of immigration but it doesn’t last.
>They allow hardly any immigrants as such, which is why Saudi Arabia still has such a strong sense of national identity and is still such a fiercely independent country.
It’s also a rightwing ultra-conservative dictatorship and its disdain for foreign culture, far from being admirable, is a reflection of the Saudi state’s social and political authoritarianism.
@Elana
“on the one hand, you don’t want anything that dilutes ‘Britishness’, on the other you want to ape countries that you deem inferior in other respects.”
An interesting thing about some British rightwingers (more specifically, some on the far-right) is that they profess to fear and dislike muslim immigration to the UK and yet have a tendency to admire a large number of characteristics of conservative Islam in a detatched way.
Saudi Arabia has a sense of independence and a strong identity because they hardly let immigrants in? Hows about Saudi Arabia hardly lets any immigrants in because they have a strong sense of independence and identity, and not a great need for immigrant labour, and are a massive family? No, that’s a bit simplistic too.
How about why would anyone like Neander would really want to live in a country like Saudi Arabia anyway, when Dubai has Jim Davidson.
Anyway, I’m still amazed that anyone can state that the attorney general can be black, but by heck her cleaners should be white. I’m not racist, but….
I wasn’t going to comment any further, feeling that you’ve had enough of me on this particular page, but I can’t resist it.
…Matty…I’m sure that you are the commenter formerly known as Zagrebo, hailing from Eastern Europe. If you are now resident in the UK then YES, your first loyalty should be to Britain. And if you’re still living in some Balkan fastness then you’ve really got a cheek saying what the UK immigration policy should be.
…Elena…you’re clearly a very intelligent lady but oh my, I’m glad that you’re not the Home Secretary. If you were, then by now the world and his wife would be living in England!
…JSwindle…Saudi Arabia has a HUGE need for immigrant labour; dark-skinned immigrants to do the menial tasks and light-skinned immigrants to do the complex ones. When P. J. O’Rourke covered the First Gulf War he and his fellow journos had a standing bet as to who would be the first to see a Saudi male handling anything heavier than a wad of banknotes. Nobody won the bet. And I didn’t know that Jim Davidson was in Dubai, not that I was ever a fan of his. I do have a soft spot though for the late Bernard Manning. It might not surprise you to know JSwindle that one of my favourite little daydreams is that Bernard Manning became PM in 1997 instead of Tony Blair. If he had then personally I think that Britain today would be a far better and happier country. I appreciate though that few if any other commenters on this site would agree with me on that one.
Your initial thoughts were right.
Sarcasm doesn’t translate to text well.
>…Matty…I’m sure that you are the commenter formerly known as Zagrebo, hailing from Eastern Europe.
Yes to the former but no to the latter. I’m a Brit.
Thank God for Neander. A voice of reason at last.Just what this site has needed