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 Post subject: Coalition Government
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:23 pm 
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We've not had much experience of national coalitions in the UK, other than the current omnishambles merchants.

I vaguely recall the short-lived Lib-Lab pact in the 70s, but other than that, nowt, although I'm aware of reasonably successful Labour partnerships with other parties in the Welsh and Scottish parliaments.

Before polling day in 2010, the notion of a hung parliament was being widely touted, and so was a possible coalition. We had naive eejits saying things like "Well, it makes sense for politicians all to, like, work together for the good of the country, yah?" People actually decided to vote Lib Dem on the basis of a few smoothie-chopped, slicked back, mendacious TV appearances by a duplicitous but superficially-impressive-to-the-gullible Lib Dem leader.

And lo, it came to pass. The rest, as the cliche manual has it, is history. Or rather, I wish it fucking was history, instead of the living nightmare we are now enduring.

I might have said this before, but if this is coalition government, you can bloody well keep it. In fact you can stuff it up your arse with a clothes pole.

I seriously hope that we never see another in my lifetime, if for no other reason than that it's hard to imagine that a majority Tory government could be significantly worse than the one we now have being "moderated" by the Lib Dems.

And another thing - is it a cast iron rule that the minor party in any governing coalition gets shat upon from a great height, or is it simply that this happened to the Lib Dems because they have a leader who is about as much use as Anne Frank's drum kit?

Please, please, by almighty bog, don't let 2015 deliver another hung parliament.

Any thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition Government
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:04 pm 
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I don't think coalitions are bad, just that you really need two different parties in them for it to make any sense, rather than tories and slightly less racist tories...


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 Post subject: Re: Coalition Government
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:12 pm 
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lord_kobel wrote:
I don't think coalitions are bad, just that you really need two different parties in them for it to make any sense, rather than tories and slightly less racist tories...

Agreed. Nothing wrong with coalition per se, depends on who's in it (eg I'd have no problem with a Labour/Green coalition or Labour/Plaid Cymru) and what their purpose is (eg winning a war).

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition Government
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:18 pm 
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The only really successful coalitions this country has had were the coalition governments in both wars. The Coalition governments of the 20s and 30s weren't much to write home about

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition Government
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:48 pm 
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lord_kobel wrote:
I don't think coalitions are bad, just that you really need two different parties in them for it to make any sense, rather than tories and slightly less racist tories...


Don't quite get that. For instance, a Labour/Tory coalition would be all but inconceivable. And although the Lib Dems will argue otherwise until they are blue in the face, no objective observer could concede that this coalition has been a success for the Liberal Democrat Party. Afraid I still think coalitions suck big time.

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition Government
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:05 pm 
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Coalitions surely have to be parties which share some common ground, or else they couldn't govern for more than five minutes. That's why the present one has held together - they are in agreement on just about everything except Europe. In fact someone like Laws is well to the right of someone like Ken Clarke except on Europe.

BTW - the 1931 wasn't really a coalition, it was a National Government. The Tories and Labour party each put up 'national' candidates, sometimes opposed by 'pure' Labour or Conservative. (Off the top of my head).


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 Post subject: Re: Coalition Government
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:57 pm 
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Agree with the OP. The thought of Labour going into coalition with complete arseholes like Alexander, Laws and Clegg after the next election turns my stomach. I'd rather try to make a go of it as a minority government, then go back to the country and seek a mandate after the first Commons defeat. No way should Labour be going into coalition with the Liberals after everything they've been party to over the last two-and-a-half years.

That said, I do wonder whether Cameron could have scraped a majority if he'd held an election after first trying to govern in a minority for a spell. The Lib Dem vote wouldn't have cratered in the way it has, which would have seriously hampered Labour. But by going into coalition with the Tories - and being so craven about it - Clegg has handed Labour the prize they've sought for the last 30 years, a reunited centre-left.

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition Government
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:10 pm 
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I don't think minority government is the answer for Labour after their previous experience in the 70s

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition Government
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:33 pm 
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Littlejohn's brain wrote:
I don't think minority government is the answer for Labour after their previous experience in the 70s


Nobody said it was the answer. It would only ever be a necessary means to a better end.

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition Government
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:57 am 
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I don't think that the Lib Dems could be said to have 'moderated' the Tories. If anything, the Tories have 'conceded' some policies to them that didn't matter too much in order to have a bargaining tool for the more disgusting policies that they wanted. In fact, it's quite possible that they are getting away with more - a small Tory majority government with a few rebels is less likely to pass legislation than a whipped Tory & Lib Dem coalition with twice as many rebels.


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 Post subject: Re: Coalition Government
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:02 am 
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And don't forget that Clegg said that he would have joined the Tories but for their position on Europe, so socially and fiscally he is at one with them. People like Alexander [spits] and Laws possibly on the right of the Tories.


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 Post subject: Re: Coalition Government
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:55 pm 
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I certainly want rid of the Tories come 2015. Although I grew up under Thatcher's and Major's governments, I was too young to notice what they were actually like. Their actions over the last three years have shown them to be the scum I've been told about. I also want the Lib Dem's to get a massive battering for waiving through the Tories scorched earth programmes.

However, I can't honestly say that I'm thrilled at the prospect of another Labour government. Although they are the best alternative to what's in power now, I'm not entirely convinced that Labour will actually change much. I know that Burnham has said that he will repeal the NHS bill if in government, but what about all the other changes, like legal aid or the privitisation of more and more public services. But most importantly for me, WILL THEY BUILD MORE SODDING COUNCIL HOUSES?

I know the election is still two years away and Labour have yet to put out their stall of what they will do, but I've got a feeling that they will revert back to New Labour.


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 Post subject: Re: Coalition Government
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:01 pm 
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Projective Unity wrote:
But most importantly for me, WILL THEY BUILD MORE SODDING COUNCIL HOUSES?


Actually that's one thing I'm reasonably confident they will deliver. Of course, perhaps it's not 'aspirational' enough for some in the party - because they associate 'aspiration' with self-enrichment and nothing else - but thankfully their voices are growing more marginal. There is certainly strong support among the grass roots for council house building, although it has been difficult for the membership to have much of a say in shaping policy post-Kinnock and later Blair. But I think I share most of your concerns. Given how divisive the current government is, perhaps 'One Nation Labour' will turn out to be a shrewd sales pitch. But the leadership needs to flesh it out a little more. We'll know more when Jon Cruddas' policy review arrives, which will hopefully be soon.

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