It is currently Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:58 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:59 pm
Posts: 785
Location: Ted
Should have been clearer. What I meant by lasers was their application into everyday use for technology. The Hughes Research Lab may or may not have invented them. Either way, the people working in that lab, the theories and the equipment were most likely provided by the state. The myriad uses for lasers we see today would not have been possible had their uses not been revolutionised by the defence industry, also state owned.

My made-up bollocks comes from Joseph Stiglitz (Nobel laureate) and Noam Chomsky (kind of a big deal). How's Monckton doing these days?

Quote:
The sort of capitalism at work in the western world these days amounts to repression and control by governments and global corporates.


Absolutely no need for strikes whatsoever then.

Zider wrote:
When they're not striking we get a bit of service but not if we're rude and especially if we don't want it.


Not really sure what this means. You don't like trains?

Emmett Jenner wrote:
The answer though is not as simple as making the state responsible for everything.


Agree, though probably for very different reasons to you. I rekon a lot of the anger from those asking for a fairer system than the one we currently have comes from the fact that currently, the state is only responsible for bailing out the banks when they fail. All the risk is taken by the state and the private sector takes all the profit. Furthermore, there is no indication of lessons being learnt or remorse, and people are starting to see the current system as not broken, but working as designed. Plutonomy, in other words.

Emmett Jenner wrote:
Nothing has been deregulated in recent memory.


Apart from the fact that I don't think you even believe that, where does this fit into your belief that the state shouldn't have control over the market when neo-liberal policies have led to obvious failure? It's all well and good saying "I think the current system isn't working, and fascist conglomerates aren't lovely", takes minimum effort or conviction. What would you do if you got elected?

_________________
"Common Sense is the collection of prejudices aquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:34 am
Posts: 5459
Location: A town near the Sea
The thing is you label that the Public Sector don't deliver any meaningful service but I'm sure we can produce woeful private sector service.

I'll give it a go

Swalec
BT
Cross Country
First Bus


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:07 am
Posts: 10144
Location: Fantasy land
First Great Western
Ryanair

_________________
"Even when you're a super-computer with an IQ of 2000 it's brown trousers time."

Reclaiming "methinks" for the nation

Latest blog post - 2011 - a review (updated 07/10)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:59 pm
Posts: 785
Location: Ted
Crapita
Southern Cross
The "Big 6" energy suppliers

Not to mention the countless situations where the private sector cheerfully gives the finger to established law, see Vodafone, BAE Systems etc. etc.

_________________
"Common Sense is the collection of prejudices aquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:45 am
Posts: 4475
Location: The woods outside the big society
Group 4

Inumerable private care homes

Associated Newspapers

Channel 5

_________________
Mailwatch. Love us or leave us.
http://www.coalitionofresistance.org.uk/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:56 pm
Posts: 2089
Emmett Jenner wrote:
I think it's fairly safe to conclude the rest of it is also made up nonsense.


The famous Jenner "backing up your opinion with facts and doing research when disagreeing with someone is for losers, so I'll just say something and hope for the best" gambit in play again here I see.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:07 am
Posts: 10144
Location: Fantasy land
Tesco

_________________
"Even when you're a super-computer with an IQ of 2000 it's brown trousers time."

Reclaiming "methinks" for the nation

Latest blog post - 2011 - a review (updated 07/10)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:25 am 
HMRC


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:56 pm
Posts: 2089
moonshien wrote:
HMRC


I've been freelance for 6 years and I have never once had an issue with HMRC. In fact, they have always been courteous, efficient, and when things have gone wrong have done their best to remedy it quickly keeping me fully informed in the process.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:11 am
Posts: 1459
Location: The Plain, in Spain.
I was with a friend of mine who is the MD of a middle-sized company. We came to the drunken conclusion that we'd finally reconciled ourselves with this century's capitalism and that while Marx still represented the best way to analyse society the old beardy had seriously miscalculated surplus value and benevolent capitalism, amongst other things we could only dimly remember from our banner-waving youth: no-one with a top-hat was busy grinding the faces of our well-paid and happy work-force into the ground or snatching crusts from widows' hands. Or at least we weren't. So over 20/30 years we had gradually cast away any doubts and embraced modern capitalism as being ok and not what 19th century philosophers had accused it of being, as long as it didn't get too far up its own arse.

(I think that tacitly many people on the left had done their own dropping of Clause IV)

Anyway, just when things were looking fairly hunky-dory along came the very people who were supposed to understand the damn thing and screwed it up royally for everybody else, except themselves, and especially for us. That of course is not true, but you do feel sorry for yourself when you're pissed.

As you can see, I'm no economist. But the financial institutions, private and state, are supposed to know how the frigging thing works even if I don't and it turns out that they are venal, corrupt wankers all along.

So I've gone right off capitalism again, but I'm not rushing into the comforting arms of whatever number International they're now on, nor embracing Stalinism.

It's not either/or.

It's neither/nor.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:30 am
Posts: 5379
Location: Hearing Banjo Music...
Emmett Jenner wrote:
Big Rob wrote:
Private industry has given us a lot over the years, as has the public sector (obviously).

It is the way that certain sectors of the corporate world are behaving that is the problem. Deregulation got everyone into this mess, unless of course you would like to claim that capitalism appears to be succeeding at the moment.....


The public sector keeps most of what it takes for itself. When they're not striking we get a bit of service but not if we're rude and especially if we don't want it.

Nothing has been deregulated in recent memory.


Well the lack of regulation on Wall Street and the excesses of the US financial industry, as a whole, is a huge part of the shit we see ourselves in on a global level..

If you don't think that is the case then you are an ignorant fuck :D


Emmett Jenner wrote:
That is a bullshit comment by 'Big Rob'.


Nope.......

Unless you think sub-prime mortgage lending is a sign of sensible market regulations :D


Emmett Jenner wrote:
Big Rob wrote:
It is the way that certain sectors of the corporate world are behaving that is the problem.


Agree with this. But I think we'd disagree about the cause and the solution.


Why would you think that?

_________________
You may say I'm a dreamer.... but I'm not the only one....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:30 am
Posts: 5379
Location: Hearing Banjo Music...
Of course investment banks are still intertwined with commercial banks so if you think your money is safe ("Save our savers!!!!" yep that's gonna solve the liquidity problem).....

Modern capitalism is heading us towards a new form if totalitarianism. A significant proportion of rich people/organizations don't want 'competition' or 'free markets'. They want the odds stacked in their favor. Of course they can still slave drive their employees with threats because it has been made so easy for them to fire their staff. What we are heading towards is plutocratic totalitarianism and mail readers are making the plutocrats' job easy for them.

_________________
You may say I'm a dreamer.... but I'm not the only one....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:43 am
Posts: 1860
Location: Dorset


_________________
My blog: https://stevenplrose.wordpress.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:49 pm
Posts: 10768
Location: Durham
JuanTwoThree wrote:
So I've gone right off capitalism again, but I'm not rushing into the comforting arms of whatever number International they're now on, nor embracing Stalinism.

It's not either/or.

It's neither/nor.

Or in the words of my favourite T-Shirt circa 1985, "Neither Washington or Moscow".

_________________
That subtle admixture of the absurd and the surreally plausible...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If you don't like capitalism, why not try N. Korea
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:04 am 
Big Rob wrote:

Modern capitalism is heading us towards a new form if totalitarianism. A significant proportion of rich people/organizations don't want 'competition' or 'free markets'. They want the odds stacked in their favor. Of course they can still slave drive their employees with threats because it has been made so easy for them to fire their staff. What we are heading towards is plutocratic totalitarianism and mail readers are making the plutocrats' job easy for them.


Right on, brother


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group