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Re: Workfare

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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:16 pm 
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Kreuzberger wrote:
My guess is that they'll be defended until the stench becomes too putrid. Then they'll be hung out to dry, teeth will be sucked Frankie Howerd style and there'll be an inquiry. The words "root" and "branch" will probably be used. Often. Brows might even be furrowed.

It's the Tory way. You're out of the club if you transgress rule Number One - "don't get caught".


I call the first witness, Lord John Taylor.

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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:43 pm 
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What's the history of Workfare in the UK?,I ask only because I was talking about it to someone at work about it last week and she told me that it had been around since the 80's because when she was 18 in 1983 she got a 6-month placement at a vet and she loved it she leant a lot and she was getting £25 a week for turning up but when her six months where up she was moved on and another girl was sent in her place,she said the Goverment banned Workfare (Or whatever it was named back in the 80's) because too many big name shops where using it as slave labour I checked Wikipedia but nothing really came up can anyone help?


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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:11 pm 
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davidjay wrote:
Kreuzberger wrote:
My guess is that they'll be defended until the stench becomes too putrid. Then they'll be hung out to dry, teeth will be sucked Frankie Howerd style and there'll be an inquiry. The words "root" and "branch" will probably be used. Often. Brows might even be furrowed.

It's the Tory way. You're out of the club if you transgress rule Number One - "don't get caught".


I call the first witness, Lord John Taylor.


What, that right wing Tory we rejected in Cheltenham in 1992? Obviously the only reason he got less support than his popular predecessor, Charlie Irving, must have been because we were racists. Nothing to do with the economy dying on its arse, or the racist behaviour of some in the local Tory party. Chris Patten lost in Bath, a very similar seat, despite being the incumbent, white and very able.

Sorry, this has bugged me for years/


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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:30 pm 
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Was it Grayling who was moaning about how he got lots of similar emails?

Shit! A write in campaign. You never get that with rightwing stuff like Israel, the BBC or prison sentences.


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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:11 pm 
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The Orange Book Lib Dems are pushing the Cameron Tories to the right. They are more libertarian and small-government crazee than he is, they don't believe in breaking up the welfare state to benefit business, they just believe in breaking up the welfare state...

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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:15 am 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
davidjay wrote:
Kreuzberger wrote:
My guess is that they'll be defended until the stench becomes too putrid. Then they'll be hung out to dry, teeth will be sucked Frankie Howerd style and there'll be an inquiry. The words "root" and "branch" will probably be used. Often. Brows might even be furrowed.

It's the Tory way. You're out of the club if you transgress rule Number One - "don't get caught".


I call the first witness, Lord John Taylor.


What, that right wing Tory we rejected in Cheltenham in 1992? Obviously the only reason he got less support than his popular predecessor, Charlie Irving, must have been because we were racists. Nothing to do with the economy dying on its arse, or the racist behaviour of some in the local Tory party. Chris Patten lost in Bath, a very similar seat, despite being the incumbent, white and very able.

Sorry, this has bugged me for years/


That's the one. Currently pleasuring Her Majesty due to fiddling his exes after being told "We all do it".

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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:18 am 
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Waterstones wrote:
What's the history of Workfare in the UK?,I ask only because I was talking about it to someone at work about it last week and she told me that it had been around since the 80's because when she was 18 in 1983 she got a 6-month placement at a vet and she loved it she leant a lot and she was getting £25 a week for turning up but when her six months where up she was moved on and another girl was sent in her place,she said the Goverment banned Workfare (Or whatever it was named back in the 80's) because too many big name shops where using it as slave labour I checked Wikipedia but nothing really came up can anyone help?



That was the Youth Opportunities Programme (YOP), which later became the Youth Training Scheme (YTS). The idea was sound - six months on the job training at £25 a week, which was more than dole money at the time. But of course, the reality was that many employers used the trainees as cheap labour and got rid of them after six months.

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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:28 am 
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davidjay wrote:
That was the Youth Opportunities Programme (YOP), which later became the Youth Training Scheme (YTS). The idea was sound - six months on the job training at £25 a week, which was more than dole money at the time. But of course, the reality was that many employers used the trainees as cheap labour and got rid of them after six months.


Didn't that era spawn the pejorative "YOPper"? An underclass of half-wit who was hopelessly out of his or her depth on some shitey eork experience gig. Guess who was in office at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:51 am 
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The basis if this whole saga is that Thatcher (and her followers) didn't trust professionals, be they lawyers (deregulated), doctors or teachers. So she tried to take education post-16 away from the Department for Education and pass it on to Industry, where the hands were dryer and safer.
She (or her advisers like Rhodes Boyson) also challenged the 'liberal' concept of education. It wasn't to be about understanding, it was to be about 'competencies', so vocations were split into levels (1 = sub GCSE to 5 = degree) and topics. The point of competencies was that the candidate could have almost unlimited goes to achieve them. The idea wasn't to test performance, but to ensure a certain level of performance upon which an employer could depend, so that they didn't have to assess job candidates, they just looked at their NVQ levels.

By coincidence I spent today with an old friend that Mrs A and I haven't seen for many years. She was part of a business that was set up expressly to make money from NVQ training in a range of occupations. We were discussing what a nightmare the whole thing was, and how it basically didn't work.

What it did do, however, was effectively kill off apprenticeships and company-based occupational training schemes.

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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:04 am 
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My dad (a butcher) used to get YTSers. He gave them time off for tech, and paid them the same again voluntarily. You still got basically a half-price worker, with lots of training done for free, even then.

All in the trainer, basically.


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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Thanks for that Davidjay,so was as my friend said was it banned by the Goverment because it was open to abuse by firms or was it just stopped by the Major goverment because it cost too much money?


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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Just got a call from the JC about another work experience placement. Oh, the irony of this one.

A legal firm that specialises in employment law. Hahahahaha :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:44 pm 
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Some bollocks in the FT about workfare today, completely missing the point that we used to manage to appoint staff with an interview, rather than a four week freebie.


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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:55 pm 
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http://www.channel4.com/news/now-asda-i ... or-no-wage

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Filling time when you're out of work isn't easy. Former music student Joseph Wilson had been unemployed for three months when his local Jobcentre told him they had found something for him to do.

It was a work placement at Asda and it was clear in the official letter, he says, that it wasn't voluntary.

If he didn't attend he could have his benefit cut. "We weren't asked anything, we weren't asked, we were told. This is what you'll be doing," he explained.

Joseph and 11 other jobseekers were set to work in the local Asda store in Harrogate in North Yorkshire, over the busy Christmas period. He says they weren't shadowing staff, they were just doing the job.

"We were doing the work itself. For the first week or so I'd have a manager hanging round just to make sure we weren't doing too badly. After that we were basically doing the work," said Joseph.

Joseph said his full-time paid colleagues were less than thrilled.

"At nights when it was quiet and there was no one around to hear it would be like 'This is rubbish. There's no overtime and you're doing our work for us'."

At the end of his five week placement Joseph wasn't offered a job but he was given a reference - a reference that was very much less than personal. It was a pro forma note, with his name added in and an opening line which said: "During this time he/she proved herself/himself to be punctual and hard-working."

Joseph said it would have taken the company two minutes to delete the inappropriate words, but "they couldn't even be bothered to do that."

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 Post subject: Re: Workfare
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:57 pm 
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Well, I got myself off the list. Thankfully with no issues.

This scheme is an utter shambles.

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