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 Post subject: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:08 pm 
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Very interesting comment piece in the Guardian recently. It's an interesting topic on the whole:
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Why on Earth would a working-class person ever vote for a conservative candidate? This question has obsessed the American left since Ronald Reagan first captured the votes of so many union members, farmers, urban Catholics and other relatively powerless people – the so-called "Reagan Democrats". Isn't the Republican party the party of big business? Don't the Democrats stand up for the little guy, and try to redistribute the wealth downwards?

Many commentators on the left have embraced some version of the duping hypothesis: the Republican party dupes people into voting against their economic interests by triggering outrage on cultural issues. "Vote for us and we'll protect the American flag!" say the Republicans. "We'll make English the official language of the United States! And most importantly, we'll prevent gay people from threatening your marriage when they … marry! Along the way we'll cut taxes on the rich, cut benefits for the poor, and allow industries to dump their waste into your drinking water, but never mind that. Only we can protect you from gay, Spanish-speaking flag-burners!"

One of the most robust findings in social psychology is that people find ways to believe whatever they want to believe. And the left really want to believe the duping hypothesis. It absolves them from blame and protects them from the need to look in the mirror or figure out what they stand for in the 21st century.

Here's a more painful but ultimately constructive diagnosis, from the point of view of moral psychology: politics at the national level is more like religion than it is like shopping. It's more about a moral vision that unifies a nation and calls it to greatness than it is about self-interest or specific policies. In most countries, the right tends to see that more clearly than the left. In America the Republicans did the hard work of drafting their moral vision in the 1970s, and Ronald Reagan was their eloquent spokesman. Patriotism, social order, strong families, personal responsibility (not government safety nets) and free enterprise. Those are values, not government programmes.

The Democrats, in contrast, have tried to win voters' hearts by promising to protect or expand programmes for elderly people, young people, students, poor people and the middle class. Vote for us and we'll use government to take care of everyone! But most Americans don't want to live in a nation based primarily on caring. That's what families are for.

One reason the left has such difficulty forging a lasting connection with voters is that the right has a built-in advantage – conservatives have a broader moral palate than the liberals (as we call leftists in the US). Think about it this way: our tongues have taste buds that are responsive to five classes of chemicals, which we perceive as sweet, sour, salty, bitter, and savoury. Sweetness is generally the most appealing of the five tastes, but when it comes to a serious meal, most people want more than that.

In the same way, you can think of the moral mind as being like a tongue that is sensitive to a variety of moral flavours. In my research with colleagues at YourMorals.org, we have identified six moral concerns as the best candidates for being the innate "taste buds" of the moral sense: care/harm, fairness/cheating, liberty/oppression, loyalty/betrayal, authority/subversion, and sanctity/degradation. Across many kinds of surveys, in the UK as well as in the USA, we find that people who self-identify as being on the left score higher on questions about care/harm. For example, how much would someone have to pay you to kick a dog in the head? Nobody wants to do this, but liberals say they would require more money than conservatives to cause harm to an innocent creature.

But on matters relating to group loyalty, respect for authority and sanctity (treating things as sacred and untouchable, not only in the context of religion), it sometimes seems that liberals lack the moral taste buds, or at least, their moral "cuisine" makes less use of them. For example, according to our data, if you want to hire someone to criticise your nation on a radio show in another nation (loyalty), give the finger to his boss (authority), or sign a piece of paper stating one's willingness to sell his soul (sanctity), you can save a lot of money by posting a sign: "Conservatives need not apply."

In America, it is these three moral foundations that underlie most of the "cultural" issues that, according to duping theorists, are used to distract voters from their self-interest. But are voters really voting against their self-interest when they vote for candidates who share their values? Loyalty, respect for authority and some degree of sanctification create a more binding social order that places some limits on individualism and egoism. As marriage rates plummet, and globalisation and rising diversity erodes the sense of common heritage within each nation, a lot of voters in many western nations find themselves hungering for conservative moral cuisine.

Despite being in the wake of a financial crisis that – if the duping theorists were correct – should have buried the cultural issues and pulled most voters to the left, we are finding in America and many European nations a stronger shift to the right. When people fear the collapse of their society, they want order and national greatness, not a more nurturing government.

Even on the two moral taste buds that both sides claim – fairness and liberty – the right can often outcook the left. The left typically thinks of equality as being central to fairness, and leftists are extremely sensitive about gross inequalities of outcome – particularly when they correspond along racial or ethnic lines. But the broader meaning of fairness is really proportionality – are people getting rewarded in proportion to the work they put into a common project? Equality of outcomes is only seen as fair by most people in the special case in which everyone has made equal contributions. The conservative media (such as the Daily Mail, or Fox News in the US) is much more sensitive to the presence of slackers and benefit cheats. They are very effective at stirring up outrage at the government for condoning cheating.

Similarly for liberty. Americans and Britons all love liberty, yet when liberty and care conflict, the left is more likely to choose care. This is the crux of the US's monumental battle over Obama's healthcare plan. Can the federal government compel some people to buy a product (health insurance) in order to make a plan work that extends care to 30 million other people? The derogatory term "nanny state" is rarely used against the right (pastygate being perhaps an exception). Conservatives are more cautious about infringing on individual liberties (eg of gun owners in the US and small businessmen) in order to protect vulnerable populations (such as children, animals and immigrants).

In sum, the left has a tendency to place caring for the weak, sick and vulnerable above all other moral concerns. It is admirable and necessary that some political party stands up for victims of injustice, racism or bad luck. But in focusing so much on the needy, the left often fails to address – and sometimes violates – other moral needs, hopes and concerns. When working-class people vote conservative, as most do in the US, they are not voting against their self-interest; they are voting for their moral interest. They are voting for the party that serves to them a more satisfying moral cuisine. The left in the UK and USA should think hard about their recipe for success in the 21st century.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... nservative

Whilst I disagree wholly with the point of right wing governments in Europe. Recently, we are seeing a shift more to the centre and left in rejection of total austerity. Reading the comments other people highlight a manipulative and dumbed down media, aspirational working class. It assumes all conservatives are the same. However, conservatism in this country is preservation of the status quo. There are those who consider themselves economically, socially, religiously conservative with a small 'c'.

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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:38 pm 
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Jonathan Haidt recently wrote a book on this topic, which I've been meaning to read but haven't got round to yet. It's probably not all that surprising that working class people become more socially conservative at a time when globalised capitalism has shipped many of the jobs that once sustained them offshore - the problem is, however, that they very often end up voting for parties that ardently support neoliberal globalisation.

To be honest, when you look at the Tory and Republican parties, in many respects they're not all that small-c conservative at all. Just look at the current crop of Tory MPs - on the whole they're moderately jingoistic free market fundamentalists first and foremost. Their party has always made a big deal of its supposed social conservatism, but what's more damaging to the family unit and community than economic liberalism and the unemployment and insecurity that goes with it? They represent a transnational corporate class first and foremost, but then so did New Labour for the most part.

Modern-day Tories really are nothing like the one-nation Tories of yesteryear, who saw a grand compromise with social democracy as the best route to social stability. In fact old-school British Toryism's biggest selling point was that it moderated the pace of change, but that went out the window with Thatcherism (even if she was very keen to evoke images of Victorian morality). The current crop seem to be purely concerned with hoarding as much cash as they can for themselves and their crony mates, and everyone else can take a running jump.

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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Some of that seems to basically say right-wing parties are popular with the masses because of the Dacre Drip effect - i.e. these people wots is bad won't be allowed under us, and we'll tell you they're bad with our reporting.

I also think part of it is due to our two-and-a-half party system. Like with the most recent elections - due to the media and a crisis not really the fault of Labour (i.e. the banking collapse), as well as this push towards "NuLabour", whatever it is/was and the recent wars - that added up to Labour basically being ousted due to the drip of LABOUR IS BAD information that the press put out.

But... you'd have thought that after Thatcher people would have learned that Tories = Trouble. They'll sell off their terminally ill grandmothers for a quick bit of champers. Yet the 'drip' against Labour was sufficient to stop them being voted in for a fourth(?) consecutive time.

You ask people on the streets what the issues are, and I bet they'd say:
Immigration
Benefits culture
High unemployment
Forrins
More forrins
Forrins on benefits

Not green issues, not civil rights, nothing like that. It's the right-wing drip that ignores the big issues and tackles the small ones. You stop immigration, you cut out benefits, you oust the foreigners - this country will collapse overnight. Yet that's the siren song the right-wing are singing, and sadly it appears to be winning people over.

This ill-informed ramble is brought to you by Tesco's own-brand teabags

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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:55 pm 
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If they see respect for authority as a moral issue, then they're bloody stupid...


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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:00 pm 
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For the ill-informed working class, they don't want to be reminded of their equality to fellow men. They need an enemy, a scapegoat, to put themselves above (benefit scroungers, immigrants, immigrants on benefits, EU laws, EU jobworths) their aspiration is fulfilled by a largely right-wing press that regularly misinforms readers by presenting editorials as factual news. The simple narratives of protection and tough on crime appeal to such people and are typical conservative policies. (Well, for the most part). Look at the riots, the social causes were ignored for the most part, there was a mouth frothing call for hanging, life sentences and no amount of reactionary idiocy.

People claim to read the Sun for it's easy to read format and PR driven celebrity content. Often, are such readers aware their values are being shaped in the smatterings of news. Or do people of such a persuasion seek out such media because it's the line of least resistance. Their world view is confirmed. There is no challenge of views. No alternative opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:09 pm 
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Well it's the press wot keeps them ill-informed, isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:34 pm 
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The right-wing profit out of people's lack of engagement in politics. Most people are not engaged by politics and can't be bothered to take the time to find out the truth - this is of course deliberately exasperated by the right-wing press. These people welcome a simple (simplistic) explanation of what is wrong.
And that is what the Right provide.

Why can't Theresa in Gateshead or Steve in Bradford get a job or afford a house? It requires a long and complex explanation, and a level of concentration on the audience's part, to make them understand how irresponsible bank lending in the USA lead to this situation. Whereas "Because foreigners have taken all the jobs and bad people have given them houses, forcing prices beyond your means" is really quick and easy to understand.

And of course it's not just foreigners but also the poor, the weak, the needy. The young, the old, the sick, the disabled and the gay. Those who are other, who have committed the sin of difference, who are scape-goated.

Twas ever thus.

When times are hard it's such a comfort to be told that it's not your fault, it's them over there. Not anonymous bankers in faraway towns, but your neighbours; tangible, identifiable people that you can release your frustration upon. Tell 'em how you feel, daub graffiti on their homes and put their windows out, assault them in the streets, burn their businesses and places of worship - so much more gratifying than trawling through long boring articles which you don't really understand about ponzi schemes and subprime lending.

And that, as always, is the Left's problem.
The Right's answers are simple and easy to understand whereas ours are long, complicated and often very dull.

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Last edited by oboogie on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:45 pm 
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I can't see much wrong with that. Remember the research that showed that less-able people tend to cluster to the right because the right's narrative is simpler? Half the people are below average intelligence. More than that have been inadequately educated in these matters (it's never been in the national curriculum and under Thatcher and Major teaching about real politics could get you fired).

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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:56 pm 
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And because the drip has been going on so long and is so visible, if you try and say "forrins aren't the problem" or "immigration isn't bad", you're gonna be met with blank looks in the best circumstances, racist bullshit in the worst.

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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:06 pm 
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Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
Remember the research that showed that less-able people tend to cluster to the right because the right's narrative is simpler?

That's what I was thinking about.
The thick, the ignorant and the complacent are the Right's core constituency. The further Right you go, the more obvious that becomes. But they're not the worst. They're not to blame for their stupidity or their lack of education. The really evil bastards are the people who have created and fuelled that ignorance and hatred and have lied and manipulated them for their own gain.

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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:12 pm 
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Many years ago, I recall having an argument with one of the Manchester SWP lot, bringing up the points you've all made above about why a lot of working class people are conservative by nature. Issues such as equality, looking to a better long-term future don't grab the attention.

The weird thing from where I grew up (Whitehaven, in West Cumbria) is that it's tended to be a Labour safe seat, despite attitudes. That does seem to be changing, though, with the Tories making some gains, if I remember right. If the BNP weren't such a disorganised, hopeless rabble then I'd guess they might do well in such places.

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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:14 pm 
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Althea wrote:
And because the drip has been going on so long and is so visible, if you try and say "forrins aren't the problem" or "immigration isn't bad", you're gonna be met with blank looks in the best circumstances, racist bullshit in the worst.

Because there's a huge volume of 'evidence' that you're wrong courtesy of:
The Mail
The Telegraph
The Express
The Sun
Sky
ITN
The Tories
UKIP
The BNP
UKIP
The EDL

... and then there's you looking rather out gunned.

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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:15 pm 
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To be fair, I wouldn't be quite so quick to dismiss working-class concerns over immigration. You have to remember that it's the working class who've been well and truly shafted more than anyone else by neoliberal economics, and it's their areas that are blighted by unemployment and poverty as a result. It shouldn't come as a surprise that working-class people end up lashing out, even if they're lashing out at the wrong targets.

It's also fairly clear that the likes of the CBI see imported labour as a useful tool for eroding wages and conditions generally. They also make for a useful propaganda tool - even a lot of liberals are quick to dismiss the British working class as lazy and feckless, with immigrant workers doing the jobs 'Brits aren't prepared to do'. The best way, I think, to prevent this would be to get low-paid immigrant workers organised into unions so they can fight for fair pay and avoid - through no fault of their own - being used as weapons by business against the rest of the working class.

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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:19 pm 
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I think that's an interesting point, and has a lot of truth. Whether or not it is actually true it is a real perception amongst working class people, those without the qualifications that make them immune from wage-lowering competition. I suspect that for many it might be.
It doesn't answer the issues of racism in the press, though. What we are talking about is economic migrants who come here to work in unskilled or semi-skilled occupations for low wages, not people coming as benefits scroungers, insofar as they exist these seem to be home-grown.

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 Post subject: Re: Why working-class people vote conservative
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:20 pm 
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D.C. Harrison wrote:
If the BNP weren't such a disorganised, hopeless rabble then I'd guess they might do well in such places.

It's a constant surprise and delight to me that the far-right do so incredibly badly in this country compared to their counterparts elsewhere in Europe.

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