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 Post subject: University fees loophole
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:36 pm 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18236547

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20% of NI students 'to exploit Irish passport loophole'

About 20% of students from Northern Ireland applying to study in Dundee intend to expolit a passport loophole to avoid fees, it has been reported.

Sixth form pupils in the UK who hold Irish passports can qualify for free university tuition in Scotland.

Dundee's daily paper, the Courier, has claimed that one in five NI applicants to Dundee University intend to apply under an Irish passport.

The Scottish Conservatives said the issue "has to be cleared up urgently".

University tuition fees are rising to a maximum of £9,000 per year across the UK from September, except at Scottish universities, where students who have lived in Scotland for a minimum of three years do not have to pay.

Earlier this month, BBC Northern Ireland revealed the loophole, under which UK students from outside Scotland can avoid tuition fees.

It they apply under an Irish passport, they are counted as EU students - and EU law does not allow discrimination against those from other member states.

The loophole means that the Scottish govenment would have to pick up the bill for Irish passport holders' university tuition.

On Monday, The Courier newspaper claimed it had obtained figures which "show hundreds of Northern Irish students applying to Dundee University this year are claiming to be eligible for free tuition as they hold an Irish passport".

Responding to the figures, the Scottish Conservatives said the Scottish National Party (SNP) government could no longer claim that there was no evidence that the loophole would not be exploited.

Their education spokeswoman, Liz Smith MSP, decribed the policy as "discriminatory" and called on the Scottish Education Secretary, Mike Russell, to take action.

"Fees from students across the UK provide significant revenue, and the SNP has not been clear on how this shortfall can be made up," she said.
Farce

She has written Mr Russell, asking him to explain both the policy and the criteria for tuition fees to the Scottish parliament.

The Labour party has claimed the SNP government got the whole fee structure wrong.

The party said it was a mistake to put Northern Ireland students in the position of trying to find out if they could take advantage of the apparent EU loophole and avoid fees.

Labour MSP, Jenny Marra, said the situation is becoming a farce.

When contacted by the BBC, a spokesman for Dundee University would not comment on the story, other than to say it would report details of this year's applications to Universities Scotland in due course.


This issue had came up here in NI earlier this month, Scottish universities are popular destinations for NI students. This loophole isn't cast iron as some universities in Scotland are scrutinising these applications to include residency tests, but it could leave the case of different jurisdictions of the UK charging different fees for third level education in a mess - the idea based on this loophole is that if you can show that you are entitled to citizenship of another EU country outside of the UK then you are looking to be treated as an EU student rather than a UK "outside jurisdiction" student and therefore be charged the same fees as those of local students. An English born cousin of mine who already holds an Irish passport is now finishing off her A-Levels and has a conditional place for Exeter but is seriously considering taking a gap year and apply to go up north instead if her fees were to go to zero. I'm sure there are thousands of school students born in England who are entitled to an Irish passport that could do the same, and then there's also those who can apply for a passport from other EU countries as well, not to mention students who are recent immigrants e.g. Poland, Latvia etc. It might not just be Scotland, Welsh and Northern Irish universities are freezing fees at around the £3k mark for local students which could be a secondary choice for some English students looking for still significantly reduced fees who might be able to take advantage of it. A possible "brain drain" anyone? Someone here might know a bit more about this.

P.S. The spelling mistakes in the report are not mine, they're the Beebs!

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 Post subject: Re: University fees loophole
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:52 am 
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Ohhh the lads grant is from Eire, it may be worth investigating a passport.

One question though, if Scotland gets independence will English students also be eligible?

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 Post subject: Re: University fees loophole
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:55 am 
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storygirl wrote:
Ohhh the lads grant is from Eire, it may be worth investigating a passport.

One question though, if Scotland gets independence will English students also be eligible?


That would depend on all the imponderables like continues EU membership.
It's also something of a myth that fees are free for Scottish universities.

The fees are paid as part of the student's loan application, and are set at a lower level than English, Welsh or Irish universities.
This means that the student makes no payment.
I'm unclear how fees are paid for EU students (whether they pay the lower rate, or are able to claim some kind of exemption).


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 Post subject: Re: University fees loophole
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:13 am 
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Welsh Universities are not freezing fees at 3k, the situation is that Students who are of Welsh residence will be have fees capped at 3k + inflation. That is including those that choose to study in England with the proposed mergers I expect that to increase.

What that creates is a confusing situation for us SU's in Wales as we will be representing UG Students on three levels of fees, those from Wales, those from England and those from abroad.


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 Post subject: Re: University fees loophole
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:09 pm 
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mattomac wrote:
Welsh Universities are not freezing fees at 3k, the situation is that Students who are of Welsh residence will be have fees capped at 3k + inflation. That is including those that choose to study in England with the proposed mergers I expect that to increase.

What that creates is a confusing situation for us SU's in Wales as we will be representing UG Students on three levels of fees, those from Wales, those from England and those from abroad.


There's a similar situation in the USA where some colleges offer a discounted fee structure for "Home State" students.
I don't know much about the details (which institutions and why they offer a discount for locals, perhaps they were the ones founded
or supported by bequests form their state).
Anyway, there's a bit of a stink going down where one of the home student discounts is being abolished adding a fair old chunk to the costs.

It might be interesting to look into it and see whether there are any analogues with the Welsh situation.


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