"All lefties read the Guardian"

lord_kobel · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:29 pm

Quote:

Black? We can help you with that!

Would that be ok?

Malcolm Armsteen · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:30 pm

Althea wrote:

If these adverts are even hinting at a "cure" for homosexuality, they're wrong and shouldn't even be going to print in the first place, because - well - they're wrong. As in factually wrong, ethically wrong and so on and so forth.

It's nothing short of anti-gay propaganda. It's there to colour perceptions and try and make people believe it's a choice or even a disease that can be cured, which it isn't and which it can't.

Things like this hurt people, maybe not directly but they fuel ignorance and stupidity. Neither are a crime, but both are destructive.

They aren't doing more than the slightest hint, no promises or recommendations:
"Not gay! Post-gay, ex-gay and proud. Get over it!"

So there are no false claims being made.

Do you really want to establish a principle where things you don't like can be banned because they offend you? Because if you do, you have to offer the same rights to people who oppose you.

lord_kobel · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:31 pm

Or you just shut down the ones that are provably talking bollocks.

Malcolm Armsteen · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:33 pm

Can you imagine how shredded a good QC could make you look over that?

Althea · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:34 pm

Malcolm Armsteen wrote:

They aren't doing more than the slightest hint, no promises or recommendations:
"Not gay! Post-gay, ex-gay and proud. Get over it!"

So there are no false claims being made.

"ex-gay" is a false claim, because you can't stop being gay. Sexuality is fluid, but it ain't that fluid, and even if it is then it's a natural thing, not something a snake-oil merchant can bring about.

Carlos The Badger · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:35 pm

lord_kobel wrote:

Carlos The Badger wrote:

Not only that but the the ASA have said the advert "does not infringe any advertising rules in the UK", so BoJo should wind his neck in.

How does that work? Surely they should be as banned as ads claiming you can pray away baldness.

If you're not trying to flog something then I think that would be OK, too.

Superstitious mumbo-jumbo for free = good.

Snake oil for a tenner = not good.

lord_kobel · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:37 pm

Not really. Back the claim up with peer reviewed evidence or shut up.

Althea · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:38 pm

lord_kobel wrote:

Not really. Back the claim up with peer reviewed evidence or shut up.

Pretty much.

Huffington Post article

Quote:

An advert due to run on London buses that promoted gay conversion therapy has been been banned following a public outcry.

The advert, which promoted therapies designed to help people reach their "heterosexual potential" were set to appear on London buses from next week, in direct response to a campaign advocating same-sex marriage.

Followed by:

Quote:

Stonewall chief executive Ben Summerskill said: "It’s sad that any self-styled 'Christian' group promotes voodoo 'gay cure therapy', which has been discredited by the BACP, the UK’s leading professional body for counselling psychotherapists."

Snake-oil merchants.

Malcolm Armsteen · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:41 pm

lord_kobel wrote:

Not really. Back the claim up with peer reviewed evidence or shut up.

What claim? They've been clever enough not to make any, as acknowledged by the ASA.

Carlos The Badger · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:49 pm

lord_kobel wrote:

Not really. Back the claim up with peer reviewed evidence or shut up.

That's not the rules though. And that's not how religion works. If the ASA could stop the pray-away the baldness thing then they could also stop the eternal salvation thing.

They churchies would just say it's not working because you lack FAITH.

oboogie · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:05 pm

Althea wrote:

You're seriously implying that repression of one's sexuality cannot (or may not) lead to depression, self-harm, suicidal feelings and even suicide itself?
Where did I say that?
Oh course it can - that's not the same as 'will' though is it?

Althea wrote:

I'm not talking about repression of free speech, and I've not said it should be restricted

Really?

Althea wrote:

Sometimes you have to just say "No", and this is one of those times. Why should we allow these organisations to actively advertise their destructive, horrific, potentially-lethal services?

Saying "No" and not allowing something is different to banning it? Sounds mightily like it to me.

Althea wrote:

We have a duty and a responsibility to all citizens of this country, and its visitors, to protect the vulnerable and those at risk. We need to have protections and safeguards in our advertising laws to protect people from snake-oil merchants and those who peddle potentially-lethal cures for any conditions as any medical and/or psychiatric treatment should be done by licensed professionals only, and those who are licensed and have practiced such "cures" in the past have generally been struck off or warned in some regard.

What are they selling?
Have they guaranteed anything?
Made any promises?
They're not claiming to be doctors so your reference to doctors being stuck off is spurious.

Althea · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:27 pm

Well, considering their campaign is - according to the Huffington - pushing "gay conversion therapy", I would think that quite clearly puts them into the realms of pushing a product which has been discredited by one of the largest therapy associations in the country.

oboogie · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:28 pm

lord_kobel wrote:

Not really. Back the claim up with peer reviewed evidence or shut up.

Let's just pretend for a second that a service was being sold (which it isn't).

The Sale of Goods Act requires the buyer to take into account the expertise of the seller.

If you buy a used car from a car dealer and on the way home the engine seizes up because it has an oil leak, the law will usually be on your side. It can be argued that the garage are professionals and should have known about the leak and either put it right or warned you.
If you buy a used car from a private seller (who is not in the motor trade) and the same thing happens, you have no right to assume anything about their knowledge of mechanics and caveat emptor would apply.

You can't sue the church because your prayers weren't answered.

If you choose to believe that faith can cure you of any condition or, in this case, are stupid enough to believe that faith can change your sexuality, then that is your look-out.

Malcolm Armsteen · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:29 pm

@Althea
But the message on the bus doesn't do that.
They haven't been stupid over this, they know where they might break advertising rules and have avoided doing it.

Althea · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:34 pm

Malcolm Armsteen wrote:

@Althea
But the message on the bus doesn't do that.
They haven't been stupid over this, they know where they might break advertising rules and have avoided doing it.

The message has the websites for two highly anti-gay groups, and was done "on behalf" of a "charity" that offers the therapy in question, according to the Graun.

The ASA were, by far, in the wrong in not stopping these adverts.

"All lefties read the Guardian"

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