Mail vs Transgender

Kreuzberger · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:45 pm

Fozzy wrote:

I don't get why some commenters are acting as if the sky has fallen in and their entire belief system has been attacked. It's as if they only thing that has ever given them any security in life is the knowledge that, at Oxford, men aren't allowed to wear skirts whilst taking exams. Whereas the reality is that, for most of them, it comes as news that there was any rule at all about exam wear.

+ Loads

ezinra · **Posted:** Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:19 am

Beware of the sex change zealots: Why IS the state so obsessed with whether we're transgender?

A nice, balanced headline which reflects Ross Clark's nice, balanced article, which uses as its Littlejohnesque starting point an innocuous survey about broadband use which offers more than two options for 'gender'.

Quote:

After years of demanding to know our ethnic identity and sexual orientation, public bodies have become obsessed with collecting data on whether or not we’ve had a sex change.

I can't remember ever being asked to mark my sexual orientation, except on the population census (where it was optional). But never mind that, what could possibly be the purpose of giving people multiple options to survey questions? Ah yes:

Quote:

a growing fear of the transsexual rights lobby among public bodies.

Zealots. Fear. Lobby. Aren't they a sinister lot, these folk that are statistically more likely to be the victims of discrimination and crimes against the person than any other?

Quote:

Gender dysmorphia — where an individual feels they were born the wrong sex — is a recognised medical condition and one that, happily, modern medicine can do something about.

No matter that many transgender people do not want that 'something'. The binary must be reinforced at all costs!

Clark then becomes completely incoherent, criticising Harriet Harman (bien entendu!) for her zealous Equality Act, and then noting that it is not binding with regard to trans people. He lashes out at "an industry of public sector busybodies counting up the number of transsexuals clipping tickets on trains", which I'm guessing does not exist. And he tries to attack Harman's bill by noting that a transgender pressure group does not recommend asking questions about cis/trans identity during job recruitment — which is obviously a vastly different situation from surveys and censuses.

The irrelevant diatribe reaches a crescendo:

Quote:

the equality industry seems desperate to try to prove that society is awash with people secretly harbouring a desire to change sex.
…
Exaggeration has worked for the Transgender lobby. It succeeded in gaining transsexuals recognition as a protected group under the Equality Act, ensuring that those who feel they have encountered prejudice may seek compensation through employment tribunals.
…
The truth is that those who preach ‘equality’ have, in practice, brought about the very opposite: a world where public authorities pigeonhole us all into categories, self-defined by pressure groups, who can then be picked out for favoured treatment.

I strongly doubt that transgender broadband users of the Isle of Wight are going to get unfair advantages. Ross Clark (via P Dacre) just wants to erase transgender people from public discourse — which is ironic, because the Mail runs freak-show stories about trans folk almost every day.

Esqui · **Posted:** Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:28 pm

Of course there should be more than two options for gender on a survey. I bet he's one of those people that would cry out if the ethnicity option had eskewed "White Brtish" in favour of "White European", or something.

shyamz · **Posted:** Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:07 am

Since when did gathering data about people (much of it optional to give) equal a government or PC conspiracy to turn everyone transgender or gay?

Where do these dicks develop this logic? When my new surgery asked me to fill in a medical history and asked if I had any allergies, I didn't asume they were collecting information for the government so they could bump people off should they wish to. Bloody paranoid madness.

Andy McDandy · **Posted:** Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:09 am

Ha ha you said develop this logic.

You're sort of assuming there's logic there to be developed.

D.C. Harrison · **Posted:** Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:52 am

I'd like to post a reasoned, rational response to that article. I really would.

But all I can manage is that it fucks me right off.

ezinra · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:36 pm

British expat businessman smothers glamorous Russian bride to death... after discovering that she used to be a man

There's no evidence from the story that the 'discovery' was in anyway linked to the murder. It's a sensationalist angle designed for the readers to get as close to justifying violence against transgender people as they dare:

Quote:

This is 'poor show' on the part of the um.....'bride'. You can't do that to someone!! It's like buying a BMW and finding out it's a Skoda!!! It's just poor show!! I wish he had just walked away!!

- Mrs Zeitgeist, Bristol in England, 27/9/2012 11:44 Rating 2

Quote:

It's pretty disgusting to think that he's been getting intimate with another guy. Surely he should have noticed that his 'fake' wife's male traits like manly hands and big feet.

- Danger Mouse, Manchester UK, 27/9/2012 11:04 Rating 21

Quote:

I in no way condone his actions but finding that out would drive you crazy, how can you not know though? even after the chop there must be tell tale signs, adams apple springs to mind.

- Jon1Burd, Cardiff, 27/9/2012 14:43 Rating 16

Translation: 'I in no way condone his actions but I would have done the same thing'.

Top-rated:

Quote:

She still is a man. In a thousand years time when Tony Robinson and Time Team come along, dig up the bones and carry out a DNA test the results will show - a man. She had a duty to tell him before the wedding and not commit the worst kind of deception.

- Andy1, Norfolk, 27/9/2012 10:29 Rating 796

This bloke's a repeat offender:

Quote:

You get what you deserve based on procurement. What he did was evil and he should suffer but if he just had a normal boring romantic relationship he would have been OK and happily married to a still alive woman. If she was indeed a man, it proves my point that natural woman are superior and any of those bimbos that have body image issues could be standing in the queue with a man to be rebuilt and remodelled with plastic and fillers. Both sexes look the same after a rebuild, clever for the man but dodgy for the woman.

- Arkley Barnet, Still Here, United Kingdom, 27/9/2012 13:34 Rating 34

ponce on the heath · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:19 pm

Quote:

She still is a man. In a thousand years time when Tony Robinson and Time Team come along, dig up the bones and carry out a DNA test the results will show - a man. She had a duty to tell him before the wedding and not commit the worst kind of deception.

- Andy1, Norfolk, 27/9/2012 10:29

If Tony Robinson is still alive in a thousand years what the fuck does he need to go digging for? "The worst kind of deception" speaks volumes about what Andy1's priorities are. Also, I know I've been out of the music scene for a while but when did Danger Mouse become such a prick?

ACG · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:33 pm

Quote:

She still is a man. In a thousand years time when Tony Robinson and Time Team come along, dig up the bones and carry out a DNA test the results will show - a man. She had a duty to tell him before the wedding and not commit the worst kind of deception.

- Andy1, Norfolk, 27/9/2012 10:29 Rating 796

actually considering the kind of analysis that can be done on archaeological remains now it's more than safe to assume they'd be able to detect the results of hormone treatment and surgery, and the results would show that she was a trans woman.
also with any luck people in 1000 years won't still be cunts about stuff like this.

Quote:

You get what you deserve based on procurement. What he did was evil and he should suffer but if he just had a normal boring romantic relationship he would have been OK and happily married to a still alive woman.
*snip*

- Arkley Barnet, Still Here, United Kingdom, 27/9/2012 13:34 Rating 34

yes arkley, i'm sure the man capable of a calculated murder would have made a brilliant fucking husband if only he'd had a "normal" relationship.

Ninja Pirate · **Joined:** Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:57 pm **Posts:** 39

ACG wrote:

Quote:

She still is a man. In a thousand years time when Tony Robinson and Time Team come along, dig up the bones and carry out a DNA test the results will show - a man. She had a duty to tell him before the wedding and not commit the worst kind of deception.

- Andy1, Norfolk, 27/9/2012 10:29 Rating 796

actually considering the kind of analysis that can be done on archaeological remains now it's more than safe to assume they'd be able to detect the results of hormone treatment and surgery, and the results would show that she was a trans woman.
also with any luck people in 1000 years won't still be cunts about stuff like this.

I didn't know Tony Robinson and the rest of the Time Team were immortal. Perhaps Andy1 is privy to inside information. Perhaps I ought to consider a career in archaeology.

All right, that was a cheap one. He probably meant it as a way of saying "archaeologists", or meant the future equivalent of Time Team or something else along those lines.

MacGuffin · **Joined:** Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:07 pm **Posts:** 427

ezinra wrote:

British expat businessman smothers glamorous Russian bride to death... after discovering that she used to be a man

There's no evidence from the story that the 'discovery' was in anyway linked to the murder. It's a sensationalist angle designed for the readers to get as close to justifying violence against transgender people as they dare:

I would go further - there doesn't seem to be any genuine evidence that the wife 'used to be a man' either. It seems to stem from a comment posted on a forum in 2006 which claims to be from the husband, who was living in Turkey, but the mods pointed out was from an IP in Leeds.

But even if it is him, that means there was at least four years between him 'knowing' and killing her.

It also doesn't make sense for the articles (same stuff in Metro, Sun) to claim he bought her off the internet when they also quote a friend who says that he met her in a hotel in Turkey where she sang.

There's a good blogpost on this here: http://janefae.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/anatomy-of-a-disrespectful-press/

(Also worth noting that a local Staffordshire news report, and a report from an English-language paper in Turkey, make no mention of the trans claim.)

ezinra · **Posted:** Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:38 pm

Good find, MacGuffin.

I continue to overestimate Mail readers. I wasn't expecting compassion for a murder victim or a serious discussion about domestic violence. I thought most comments would pick up on the transphobic "can't trust 'em" angle, or the xenophobic Russian bride angle. But no — those are a bit complicated and require a certain level (albeit a low one) of reading comprehension. Instead, they've reacted to "glamorous" in the headline with "she's ugly".

I look forward to the day when the Mail does away with copy altogether, and just publishes headlines and pictures, leaving its readers to fill in the blanks.

shyamz · **Posted:** Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:01 pm

http://www.change.org/petitions/world-h ... WIoivSqvUi

lord_kobel · **Posted:** Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:05 pm

Yeah, just signed that.

Esqui · **Posted:** Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:08 pm

Also signed

Mail vs Transgender

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