I think Hooters is fairly small fry compared to the sort of filth (sorry, tabloid speak again) readily available on the top shelf (and even lower down) of most newsagents.
Or the women at the beck and call of pimps.
Or the way women are referred by 50 cent and his fellow hip-hop morons.

The fact is many people do judge potential mates on a basis of physical attractiveness, a re-surfacing of our ancient animal instincts. Its not something that is going to go away easily.

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'Because we've reached the limits of what rectal probing can teach us'

Agreed up to a point. The huge difference however is the degree of separation in the examples you mention, the model in the magazine cannot see the man leering at her. There's also an increased blurring of fantasy and reality, the Hooter's waitress is a real human being who is physically there, as opposed to an image on a piece of paper or an imagined woman in the lyric of a song, therefore there is the potential for interaction with her.

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That subtle admixture of the absurd and the surreally plausible...

Yes, separation is key. Blurring the line between fantasy and reality is much easier to do when there isn't the fundamental separation enforced by a magazine page (or even - to some extent - a stage in a pole-dancing club).

That's not to excuse other forms of degradation, or even to suggest that Hooters is a much bigger problem than them. It's just a different kind of problem.

The thing is inequality isn't as straight forward as "men are always dominating women". Have you seen a recent TV advert break? It's almost exclusively men being shown up or put down by women. That's half the problem for me, neither sex can be said to have it entirely its own way but it seems to me as a man that sometimes I'm expected to change things without seeing any tangible benefits for myself. This is one example.

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"Even when you're a super-computer with an IQ of 2000 it's brown trousers time."

Reclaiming "methinks" for the nation

Latest blog post - 2011 - a review (updated 07/10)

I would imagine part of their lack of popularity here is that in the US waiters work for tips.I would imagine in places like hooters it means the staff are willing to be extra friendly.

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Blog...http://itsjustahobby.wordpress.com/

Soon, if we are not prudent, millions of people will be watching each other starve to death through expensive television sets. Nye Bevan

And this is another.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukM9KhUzUBo

Doesn't seem a reason to ignore it.

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That subtle admixture of the absurd and the surreally plausible...

Please see the comments I made on the "...vs Jordan" thread, regarding the stereotype of women as 'disapproving mother/big sister' - in short, the portrayal of women as the sensible, safe, (dare I say it) boring ones who have to constantly stamp their feet and bring the silly boys or men to heel.

There's a trend in culture (especially children's books and films) for male characters to be out of the ordinary - superheroes, wizards, maverick cops, explorers and so on. Female leads tend to be more earthly and grounded in reality - boarding school girl being a classic of children's fiction as something a little outside of most readers' lives but by no means implausible. Male characters tend to accomplish goals through conflict, female ones through conciliation. "Safe and sensible" runs through like a stick of rock. Or look at it like this, based on the various films, sitcoms and books that readily spring to mind:

"Wild and wacky" male - ha ha, what a laugh, isn't he kerrayzee!, the big lovable buffoon?

"Wild and wacky" female - may sing cat-related songs. Best section her.

"Safe and sensible" male - what a nerd? BOO-RING!

"Safe and sensible" female - thank God for her, what would I do without her?

So in short (but not shorts), it may be an apparently anti-male stereotype that permeates advertising, but it's just as constricting to women as it is to men, and in its own way equally patronising and limiting.

So kill all advertisers.

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Ten seconds... the pain begins.

Fifteen seconds... you can't breathe.

Twenty seconds... you give up and turn off the Jeremy Vine show.

I did not expect "but what about the menz " to come up so quickly.

Yes there are unamusing adverts on TV,but they do not come from 1000 years of male privilege,and tend to show men as being inadequate at female defined tasks.As for the expectation to change,that depends what you see as benefits.Would we not all benefit from a society that did not judge people by how they dressed,where ability mattered more than race,age,gender or appearance?

I perhaps should have made clear earlier whilst i defend the right of women to work at hooters,i personally would prefer the chain did not exist.To my mind,an honest stripper is a less problematic job.

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Blog...http://itsjustahobby.wordpress.com/

Soon, if we are not prudent, millions of people will be watching each other starve to death through expensive television sets. Nye Bevan

Finally something we can all agree on.

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"Even when you're a super-computer with an IQ of 2000 it's brown trousers time."

Reclaiming "methinks" for the nation

Latest blog post - 2011 - a review (updated 07/10)

see also: http://dmhatingfemisfromhell.blogspot.c ... ument.html

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i have an art blog: http://procrastinationathon.blogspot.com/
and a review blog: http://blindwithwoodenhands.blogspot.com/
double blog! what does it mean?

But Hooters' waitresses are not potential mates. They are women paid a small wage so that the customer can get a hard-on while his beer is served. What gives him the right to expect that, other than the fact that he's male and rich enough to afford it?


I agree that inequality isn't straightforward. Squeezing human beings into banal stereotypes according to their genitalia does nobody any good. Adverts are, by their nature, some of the worst offenders: in your example, the woman often ends up using the product being advertised, reinforcing the cliché that women are 'hardwired' to perform boring domestic tasks, while her feckless imbecile of a husband sits on his arse watching 'footie'. (She loves him all the same!) I also think the nauseating stereotype of the feisty, 'kick-ass' woman is alienating for men: after all, a 'kick-ass' man is just a cunt.
More seriously, in the reporting of crime and violence, there's the white woman syndrome, where victims only get mourned if they are pretty, young, white and female. I recently read an article which extended this to Lady Di and Jade Goody: death is only tragic or noble if it's female. By extension, men are disposable, despite making up a large majority of the casualties of war, murder victims, fatalities from accidents at work and so on.
So, yes, inequality isn't straightforward. But the scales are still tipped against women. That will only change when men acknowledge the privileges they have, and agree to do something about them. It's already happening in many areas — housework and childcare, for example. My dad did fuck all of either, even when my mother went back to work. His generation didn't see that as a problem. I do.


Well, in a sense, you're right. The benefits aren't always tangible or immediate (though when my parents eventually separated, my dad had to pay for housekeeping). But you could say the same for plenty of learned behaviours. The main benefit I can see in men who listen, understand, genuinely give a shit, are open to a different viewpoint and able to empathise with it, will take responsibility for their actions, are willing to share the load, and don't feel threatened by the idea of women as their equals, is that they are basically sex on legs. That's arguably not a benefit at all, but it holds for other women too, including some really hot ones.

I started this topic on Sunday. Five pages in 2 1/2 days. I feel so proud.

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Sick Left-wing Zealot.

You are right. My point there was more about the perceived shallowness of judging based on outward appearance and 'assets' over more intangible benefits, rather than directly related to Hooters.

To be honest though, it would take a little more that a lass with big boobs serving me beer to get the old tent pole

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'Because we've reached the limits of what rectal probing can teach us'

They aren't nude or even topless. The Mail headline stating "where waitresses wear next to nothing" was a typical Mail headline.

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Sick Left-wing Zealot.

Exactly. You see women wearing considerably less on the beach, or even in the local town center

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'Because we've reached the limits of what rectal probing can teach us'