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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and the Motorist
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:12 am 
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Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
Bill was referring, I suspect, to hypothermia, not nasopharyngitis or rhinopharyngitis, as I suspect you well knew.

No I didn't know at all because I misread it and thought he was talking about the common-cold. Re-reading it I see my mistake. Thanks for pointing it out. Of course people die of hypothermia in the winter but I've no idea what the fatality rate is.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and the Motorist
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:16 am 
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Huger than I thought, certainly.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and the Motorist
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:43 am 
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Five deaths per day in road accidents is still too many — and the toll has started to rise again, in part because of government cuts to the road security budget. Over the last decade, the UK average is actually more than eight deaths and 750 injuries a day. Children are more likely than average to be victims, as are old people and disabled people. But why worry about that when the really sad news is that people like Bill of Newcastle might have to add an extra few minutes to their car journeys?


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and the Motorist
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:13 pm 
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davidjay wrote:
Quote:
5 people a day die on the roads. 200 a day die of cold in the UK.
- Bill, Newcastle, UK, 14/7/2012 4:22


Really?



I'm sure Bill goes on to demonstrate how driving like Mister toad will magically eliminate hypothermia.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and the Motorist
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:54 pm 
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To be pedantic (not smug) those are excess deaths, in other words people who die earlier than they would otherwise. Some a lot earlier, some not. I know that everybody is dead and that's not ideal, but it's not as though a plague hits when it's cold.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and the Motorist
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Mother of four who emigrated to Australia to start new life is killed in road crash horror as husband witnesses tragedy from his car

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z210TrIhj4


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In 2010-11, 1,901 people were killed on Britain's roads a tragedy for all involved and their families. I do not remember much in the way of coverage for most of them in the D M. If there were the same number of deaths on the railway or by air travel there would be outrage.

- Anne, West Midlands E.U, 18/7/2012 3:46
Click to rate Rating 35



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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and the Motorist
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:32 pm 
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One of my projects when I was a student involved reading newspapers from the interwar years. And they were full of traffic accidents. These were reported in apocalyptic terms, like air crashes nowadays. In France and especially in the US, editorials would bang on about the destructiveness of the motor car in the same way that the Mail dreams of a world without video games. In the French press, motoring fatalities dominated the front pages even as the Nazi question loomed. In the southern states of the US, Roosevelt's road-building programme faced serious opposition from newspapers.

Part of the reason for this was that car-ownership was confined to the wealthy. I suppose car accidents stopped being big news once both perpetrators and victims came from the masses.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and the Motorist
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Just been reading Andrew Marr's history of postwar Britain.

The introduction of breathalysers and seatbelts made a colossal difference, massively reducing the numbers of people killed and maimed in RTAs. One expert reckoned that if the measures Barbara Castle introduced had not been brought in, you'd be looking at perhaps half a million deaths on the roads a year.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and the Motorist
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Andy McDandy wrote:
Just been reading Andrew Marr's history of postwar Britain.

The introduction of breathalysers and seatbelts made a colossal difference, massively reducing the numbers of people killed and maimed in RTAs. One expert reckoned that if the measures Barbara Castle introduced had not been brought in, you'd be looking at perhaps half a million deaths on the roads a year.


And anyone suggesting controls be brought in would be accused of Nanny State Elf'n'Safetyism gorn mad.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and the Motorist
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:18 pm 
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"in my day we crammed 10 people in a car and put the kids in the boot, we also drove after 10 pints even if we couldn't walk straight". heaven forbid if any forrin types do this though!


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and the Motorist
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:45 pm 
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davidjay wrote:
Andy McDandy wrote:
Just been reading Andrew Marr's history of postwar Britain.

The introduction of breathalysers and seatbelts made a colossal difference, massively reducing the numbers of people killed and maimed in RTAs. One expert reckoned that if the measures Barbara Castle introduced had not been brought in, you'd be looking at perhaps half a million deaths on the roads a year.


And anyone suggesting controls be brought in would be accused of Nanny State Elf'n'Safetyism gorn mad.


Oh, they did. But the numbers back the decision up. On an anecdotal level, Marr quotes an ambulance driver who said that weekend nights used to be call after call, non stop. After 6 months of Castle's measures, Friday and Saturday nights down the depot had become poker nights.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and the Motorist
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:00 pm 
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From 1979. Ivan Lawrence MP inveighs against compulsory seat belts.

Quote:
I am wholly in favour of seat belts, of encouraging people to wear them, and of insurance companies and courts applying sanctions to encourage their use, but I am against the Bill because it abuses the criminal law and the criminal process. Why should any citizen be forced by criminal sanction to wear something which could in some circumstances kill him? That has never been a legitimate principle of our criminal law. Why should anyone be forced by criminal sanction not to hurt himself? That was never, at least until the crash helmet legislation, a principle of our criminal law. Where will it end? Why make driving without a seat belt a crime because it could save a thousand lives, when we could stop cigarette smoking by the criminal law and save 20,000 lives a year? Why not stop by making it criminal the drinking of alcohol, which would save hundreds of thousands of lives?

When will we realise that laws not only cannot cure every evil but are frequently counter-productive? Here the harm done to our criminal process may well exceed any good that the law can do. We can see that in advance, so why do we persist with it? If there was a law which made it a criminal offence to smoke or to drink alcohol, neither of which, of course, do I advocate, just think of the amount of bereavement that would be saved, the number of hospital beds that could be put to better use, and the time and energy of our doctors and nurses which could be more usefully employed. Yet we do not consider doing that. What is it about the motorist that requires him to be singled out and subjected to this sort of legislation?
...
The harm to justice caused by this legislation will be far more substantial than we think. When will we realise that every little infringement of liberty, for whatever good cause, diminishes the whole concept of liberty? If life is the only criterion, why did we sacrifice so many millions of lives in two world wars? Why did we not in the Second World War lie down and say"Because millions of people may die, we should let our liberty be taken away before the onset of the Nazis "? The answer is that more important than lives is the concept of liberty.

Since I have been in the House I have seen the cogent arguments and the telling pleas of hon. Members on both sides of the House persuading and succeeding in persuading the House that it is only a very little piece more of liberty that we are withdrawing and for such great benefits and advantages. As a result we have far fewer of our freedoms now than was ever dreamed possible a few years ago. In the end we shall find that our liberties have all but disappeared. It might be possible to save more lives in Britain by this measure—and by countless other measures. But I do not see the virtue in saving more lives by legislation which will produce in the end a Britain where nobody wants to live.


Nazis!!!!

Yeah, bet the blokes on D-Day would have gone down the pub instead if they'd known seat belts might be compulsory.


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