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 Post subject: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:54 pm 
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In the past few months, we have heard stories such as Christian B&B owners denying homosexual couples to use their services, foster parents not allowing to teach to kids that homosexuality is a 'sin', and Colin Atkinson going against company rules and displaying a cross in a company van. Whilst these cases have shown that the people involved have used their religious beliefs as an excuse to bend the rules and cry discrimination if they're taken into account, and are actually quite un-Christian in their views (as Malcolm pointed out a while ago, these people seem to ignore the message from the parable of the widow and her two mites), the likes of the Mail have taken advantage of these stories to highlight the apparent rise of 'Christianophobia' in this country.

Seeing as this has become such a hot topic, here's a new thread!

In today's Mail, there's an article by Andrea Williams, a lawyer and the founder and director of Christian Concern and the Christian Legal Centre, who writes that Christainity is under attack in a country which is historically and culturally Christian:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... ation.html

The article is so full of contradictions, I don't know where to begin.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:11 pm 
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I've wondered about the mindset that generates this.

On the one hand the faith is centred around the veneration of a martyr.
You have at least 1 big Martyr embodying the greatest person who ever trod the earth.
Your chosen denomination may venerate a host of other martyrs.

Some of these were noble chivalrous people defending the weak and giving their lives in the process.
Can't argue with this and I can draw a parallel with modern day peacekeepers or development workers killed by guerillas.

Others come across as the sort of people who'd happily argue and obstruct whatever the issue, but owe their fame to "Being a Christian".
Mailite characters living in times of persecution, and falling foul of something a bit more dangerous than the PC brigade.

There's a final small bunch who I regard as extremely poor role models whose stories can be sumarised as "Went off with a gang to slaughter some pagans but got killed".
A sort of Horst Wessel with a blessing.


I suspect our modern lot combine a bit of a wannabee streak with the mailite mindset.
Bingo, Martyrdon without any of the messy death, 15 minutes of fame, and the remote possibility of 40 silver compensation pieces.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:24 pm 
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This should get a few downvotes if published.
Quote:
Isn't the Cross a graven image that you aren't supposed to worship?

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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:56 pm 
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A full congregation of wingnuts there in the comments section.

Predictably, several blaming "Do Gooders" who must have missed the references to
Quote:
The social reformers of the 19th Century who made Britain great – Wilberforce, Fry, Peel and Rowntree, among others – were compelled by their love for Christ and built on the foundations of preachers such as Wesley and Whitefield of the 18th Century.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:37 am 
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tians.html

I knew the Mail would leap on this as soon as I heard about it. What I don't quite understand is why the views of an elderly priest are being so widely reported. The BBC (who started the story) and the rest of the Press apparently think that those of us who can't be bothered going to church to hear the views of a bigoted old man who likes to dress up in a frock and a silly hat will want to know all about what he said in any case. I have no problem with him saying this stuff, nor with him wearing what he likes, because this is a western democracy and some people apparently like hearing it and seeing him. But thankfully, in a western democracy I don't have to. So having his views thrust upon me by the Press is, frankly, an intrusion.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:42 am 
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Aggressive secularism = Lots of people aren't buying what we're selling and aren't afraid of us anymore and it's just not fair. The once powerful viewing a level playing field as going against them, having spent so long unjustifably elevated.

And their little hats are shit.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:52 am 
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The rot, of course, started in 1969 with Humanae Vitae. Once people realised that they actually could please themselves in something as personal as their sex lives and the sky didn't fall in, despite what the Pope said, it was the thin end of the wedge. I know the (previously-devout) Polish mother of a friend decided at that point that enough was enough - as she said, no old man in Rome was going to tell her how to behave in bed. They really shot themselves in the foot there.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:57 am 
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It wasn't aggressive secularists sending postal bombs earlier this month, was it?

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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:46 am 
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No, it was cunts.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:23 am 
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Image


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:30 am 
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It's pretty clear that since Stephen Green was exposed as a wife beater, the Mail has dumped Christian Voice and got a hotline to Christian Concern (and its paramilitary wing the Christian Legal Centre) instead.

All the 'persecuted Christian' stories in the tabloids recently have come via that organisation, with a heavy dose of spin naturally, and the slightest bit of research shows that either the controversies have been manufactured (eg the Foster family who hadn't actually looked after kids for nearly a decade and had no intention of doing so) or that outrageous behaviour is being airbrushed (eg the teacher sacked for forcing god on terminally ill pupils, people refusing to do their jobs if customers were gay etc)

The Mail are fully aware of this, but it's useful for their "well I'm sure that Muzzies would be allowed to treat poofters badly" appeal to their white readership, and it allows self-pitying Christians to delude themselves that declines in church attendance and national influence aren't entirely self-inflicted. Someone should tell Cardinal Keith O'Brien that it wasn't aggressive secularism that fucked the altar server and covered it up at the highest levels.

Christian Concern runs the 'not ashamed' campaign headed by Lord Carey, which is why he's always handy for a "I'm being oppressed" quote and why cross man and his missis were in those awful t-shirts. That's the same Lord Carey who argued last year that panels of Christian judges ought to hear legal cases against Christian defendants so they could have privileged treatment in a Christian country.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:41 am 
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Ah, I do like Easter. The time of year when everything stops for four days so that the nation's bishops can go on telly to complain about Christianity being ignored and marginalised.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:37 am 
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At work the other day I stumbled across a copy of the Mail from February 2010, which featured on its letters page what I suppose was round 1 of the current euthanasia debate. There was a letter from Terry Pratchett (someone who when he was railing against the NHS over treatment for Alzheimer's was flavour of the month at Dacre Towers, nowadays not so much) saying, in essence, "If religious leaders feel they're not being listened to, then there is no conspiracy; all that has happened is that people (for many reasons) have decided their message is not worth listening to".

As a really crap analogy, think about it in terms of cars. One time, you had to drive a Model T Ford, as it was the only affordable car on the market. Sure, you'd see the ocasional Rolls Royce or Bentley, but these were exotic and objects of envy/fascination. You had your Ford Model T, and were happy with it. What's more, you were better than all those cyclists, because you could travel in comfort.

Things changed. More and more cars came on the market. No longer did everyone drive the same car, but they were able to see the defects in the Model T that served them so well for so many years. Some people upgraded. Others couldn't afford to, or didn't want to, and got very defensive about the old Model Ts. Why bother changing? they asked. It's served me and my family well for years.

Then things got even worse. People began to question whether car ownership was at all a good idea. Some people looked for new Hybrids, that allayed their environmental concerns to a degree, while offering the safety, convenience and comfort they had come to expect from a car. Others went 'fuck it, in for a penny, in for a pound', and bought Humvees, knowing full well how uneconomical and destructive they were, but also that they offered excellent protection and that only a total lunatic would try to fuck with them. And the Ford owners sort of respected and understood both groups. The Prius owners were a bit wet, the Humvee owners a bit scary for their liking, but both were better than the third sort. Besides, a car was still a car.

The third sort abandoned the cars altogether and went back to the uncomfortable, flimsy bicycles. And to the fury of the car owners, were not at all inconvenienced. In fact, they said that by using a bike they became freer, more mobile, able to go anywhere and explore new places. They were glad to have abandoned the car. "In fact" they said, "We never really needed them in the first place".

And the car owners began to grow concerned, and did murmur against the cyclists. Was it not true, they said, that the cyclists ignored the rules that all road users should follow? Was it not true that they were given preferential tratment? Was it indeed not true that when new roads were built, they were made to favour the cyclists, even thouth the cyclists didn't even have to use them?

And all the time they said this, they failed to recognise that a) the strongest cycle would still buckle like a reed and offer no protection against the impact of a car, and b) there were still bastard cars and roads everywhere.

Now, my childer, the Humvee owner is the fundamentalist, who cares not for how much of an asshole they are and how much everyone else knows it. The Prius owner the moderate/reformist/Quaker who tries to follow their faith well, while not unduly affecting anyone else unless for the absolute good. The Ford owner is the Mailite CofE Christian who says isn't the traffic awful, mind you wouldn't want to use the bloody buses and train tickets these days don't get me started and when are they going to finish with these roadworks, another pack of pork scratchings and a scotch egg over here mein host. The cyclist is the Humanist.

Pagans are riding unicycles. Entertaining, occasional pratfall, but ultimately going nowhere.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:55 am 
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The Ford owner is the Mailite CofE Christian who says isn't the traffic awful, mind you wouldn't want to use the bloody buses and train tickets these days don't get me started and when are they going to finish with these roadworks, another pack of pork scratchings and a scotch egg over here mein host. The cyclist is the Humanist.



Excuse me. I have a Fiesta.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mail and 'Christianophobia'
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:01 am 
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I suddenly have a mental mage of the Lee & Herring (or was it Big Train?) sketch where Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan, just to have it picked apart by his disciples ("So, are you saying that Samaritans are bastards, because some of my best mates are...") :D

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