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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:49 am 
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JuanTwoThree wrote:
What's the BNP doing to the left of Tories and LibDems?


The left - right axis is based on economic policies primarily, and the BNP are actually not as heavily based on the free market and so on as the main three parties. It's hard to be as that would involve a lot of migrant labour doing the jobs. You'd be telling the employers who they could and couldn't employ, which isn't very market-based.

The whole kicking out the wogs and so on is more the authoritarian side of it so it's no surprise to see them streets ahead on that score.

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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:53 am 
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Emmett Jenner wrote:
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Not many authoritarian hard-left, which rather derails the Daily Mail commentariat claims we're living in some sort of communist super-state.

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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:08 pm 
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mr angry manchester wrote:
And, oboogie, dont worry, no racism here at all, as well as being totally wrong, it also doesnt make any sense in any form. It is irrational and illogical, to quote one of my heroes, Spock :D


Agreed.

I wasn't for a moment suggesting that you were racist, I deliberately picked it as as an absurd extreme. No offence was meant. :)

I'm convinced that the questions are flawed, several times I found myself have to tick boxes which don't accurately reflect my views as the least worst option available. On many questions I wanted additional information to decide on my answer.

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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:29 pm 
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The concept is flawed.
It's an adaptation of the JoHari Window and as such is suited for tracking an individual's personality type, which is what is happening here, based on political/emotional responses.
Where it is used for political opinions over a large range of questions the degree of compromise is increased as the number of questions rises, if it is then portrayed as a single point. It ignores the range of opinions described by Mr Manchester and others. It would be far better to show an individual's response as an enclosed scattergram. I have seen that done and it is quite informative.

What it could do would be to show the range of opinions/character types within a party - but in the case of parties that are not single-issue that would also be a compromise.

It's an interesting idea, but in this form no more than a party trick. I'm not sure how unbiased the questions are - they would be better as more generic issues.


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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:17 pm 
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bluebellnutter wrote:
Emmett Jenner wrote:
Image


Not many authoritarian hard-left, which rather derails the Daily Mail commentariat claims we're living in some sort of communist super-state.


Yes, but that's because it is the results from a local UKIP group. Not the general public.

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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:53 pm 
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I'd regard myself as a communitarian centrist, so that result isn't too far out for me I guess.
Dare I say I'm probably one of the more 'right leaning' posters here! :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:18 pm 
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Well the bottom left quadrant is 'contradiction zone' – “I'm a liberal but I want to take everyone’s money and redistribute it creating welfare dependency for those receiving while telling those I am taking from that they don’t have any choice of how to spend 50% of everything they earn.”

In every other quadrant the intentions are clear.

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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:42 pm 
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Emmett Jenner wrote:
Well the bottom left quadrant is 'contradiction zone' – “I'm a liberal but I want to take everyone’s money and redistribute it creating welfare dependency for those receiving while telling those I am taking from that they don’t have any choice of how to spend 50% of everything they earn.”

In every other quadrant the intentions are clear.


you're confusing liberal with right wing.

A heavily left wing, libertarian country would allow industry a great deal of freedom to make money without government interference, but would tax heavily and redistribute the money.
If they were heavily right wing instead, the difference would be the money would stay with those who made it.


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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Emmett Jenner wrote:
Well the bottom left quadrant is 'contradiction zone'


Who says?


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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:47 pm 
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Emmett, this is the 'serious discussion' part. You need to read up on Chomsky, the anti-state left, the libertarian left, Henry George, Proudhon* and Tucker before making facile pronouncements like that.


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Quote:
To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be placed under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonoured. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality.



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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:15 pm 
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Emmett Jenner wrote:
“I'm a liberal but I want to take everyone’s money and redistribute it creating welfare dependency for those receiving while telling those I am taking from that they don’t have any choice of how to spend 50% of everything they earn.”


That's me (without the silly 'welfare dependency' bit).

You have a choice how your taxes are spent by the way - elections. The only choice you shouldn't be allowed is whether or not you pay them.

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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:49 pm 
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If the bottom-left quadrant is in conflict with itself, then so is the top right...

State: "We will allow you to earn your money and spend it whatever way you like without taking much from you in taxes.

Joe: "I've a nice big back garden which I could grow a lot of hemp in, make money, create profit..."

State: "YOU CAN'T DO THAT! IT'S NOT ALLOWED!!"

Joe: "Why not?"

State: "Because we say so to uphold morality in this country! That is why!"

Joe: "What if I grow some just for my own use?"

State: "You still can't do that!"

Joe: "Why not?"

State: "Because we believe that it is not good for you!"

Joe: "Isn't that a bit 'nanny state'?"

State: "No, the nanny state is what you get under ZaNu Liebour. We just know what is good for you and everyone else and smoking dope isn't good for you!"

Joe: "I never mentioned anything about smoking dope!"

State: "You said you wanted to grow hemp?"

Joe: "Yes, to make hemp clothing for myself, some hemp paper too and maybe sell both on if I have a surplus..."

State: "People like you just say that so you can get stoned on the sly."

Joe: "I have never smoked any illegal drugs in my life!"

State: "So what is your problem?"

Joe: "I'm not going to be hurting anyone growing some help for my own use. Why is that a problem?"

State: "Because your actions will undermine morality, business and social cohesion in this country."

Joe: "Business?"

State: "Yes, business. Some rich people in the wood, clothing and tobacco industry have made big donations to our party over the years whose wealth generation is vital to this country's interests."

Joe: "So you are going to stop me growing hemp in case I manage to make a decent living out of it and cut into the profits of the businesses that support your party?"

State: "That's not what the law is about, the laws are there to stop public morality and behaviour sliding into decadence."

Joe: "How do you go about the stuff like Boris Johnson's affairs, MPs expenses, family values, the Bullington boys..."

State: "Fuck off"

Joe: "That doesn't sound like someone with good morals to fly off the handle like that"

State: "Look, just obey what we say, OK?"

Joe: "But I thought you said you were a pro-free market, pro-civil liberties party?

State: "We are!"

Joe: "So why are you stopping me making a product that I can sell from the fruits of my labour?"

State: "I refer you to our previous answers..."

Joe: "Screw this, I'm gonna watch a DVD I've book to rent out for the night"

State: "What's the DVD?"

Joe: "Kick Ass"

State: "Well we're not terribly fond of that movie. We haven't found a way to ban it yet though."

Joe: "Ban it? Why, for crying out loud?"

State: "Because it contains a scene of two 18 year olds simulating vaginal intercourse while still clothed, and a young girl who hasn't been at school saying the word cunts. Such scenes could corrupt the minds of children and undermine public decency..."

Joe: "Children? It's rated 15 for Christ's sake!"

State: "Don't take the lords name in vain"

Joe: "But just a moment ago you said Fu... whatever. My housemate and I are just going to the video store to collect it. Is it OK if she leaves the house?

State: "She sure can. It's a free country."

Joe: "Great, she's just in her room at the moment putting her burka on..."

State: "Did you say burka? She can't wear that in public..."

Joe: "AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!11onehundredandeleven!!!"

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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:34 am 
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Hmmm.

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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:32 am 
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I'm slap bang in the middle of the green cube. Which is surprising as I'm quite pro-business. I suspect I was dragged down and left because my main bugbear is fairness in all situations, and a lot of right-wing ideology is about stacking the deck in their favour.


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 Post subject: Re: This Political compass thing
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:55 am 
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much as i suspected.....

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:mrgreen:


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