I'm prompted to this by a message on another topic - I thought it would be interesting and indeed helpful to have other people's views.

I'm also prompted by my mother's situation. She's 86, my father died almost a year ago after 64 years of marriage, she had a stroke soon afterwards and, unsurprisingly, she's bloody miserable. The stroke wasn't the worst, but it caused some restrictions in terms of her mobility, she doesn't like the fact that her speech is slurred and she just can't say some words, but mostly she hates the fact that it completely took away her ability to deal with numbers, which in turn means she has very little understanding of dates, time and money and can't deal with things like dials on machinery. She quite often says she would rather be dead, and I have to say the whole situation makes me think that modern medicine doesn't necessarily do any favours to the elderly; in the natural course of things she would probably have had another stroke and died and quite frankly that's what she wants, whereas she is now stabilised on warfarin and heart medication and is physically pretty well.

It concerns me that the time may well come when she says she wants a trip to Dignitas, and I have no idea how I'd handle that. I suppose ultimately I would go along with her wishes if she really wanted it, but it would be bloody difficult.

What do people round here think?

I think if people want to die, we should let them.

Overall I'm in agreement with Lord Kobel. I will accept there may be difficulties in identifying what is genuine desire to end life and severe distress/trauma etc brought on by advanced stages of illness, but ultimately no-one has more right to make that call than the one person directly involved (in 99.9% of cases anyway). I would guess however that there is probably some discrepancy between what a person believes is right hypothetically, and how they would feel when a loved one is in that situation. Fozzy you have my deepest sympathies in what must be an incredibly trying time.

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"Common Sense is the collection of prejudices aquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein

I'm of the opinion that while killing people is inhuman, keeping people alive who would rather not be kept so is just as inhuman, and in that scenario it should be up to the patient to decide what they want to happen.

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"Even when you're a super-computer with an IQ of 2000 it's brown trousers time."

Reclaiming "methinks" for the nation

Latest blog post - 2011 - a review (updated 07/10)

A few years ago I spent an afternoon talking to my neighbour in France. She was in her eighties, and had farmed all her life, and it had been hard work. Her hips, knees and ankles had gone (all to be replaced) but she also had serious back pain. She was a devout Catholic, so for her there was no course other than to wait for death to release her from both her pain and the enforced inactivity it had forced on her. She said that she was tired, unable to sleep, exhausted by debilitating pain. All she could do, with her mind as sharp as a tack, was wait for the end. Which, for her, came a couple of years later. According to her son she did nothing to fight her last illness, but accepted it with gratitude.

A tragic tale, often told.

Yes it should be the decision of the person themselves and no one else. I agree with ponce on the heath that there may be problems around the nature of pain and depression - they can be temporary even if they feel unbearable at the time. Still, we're talking about adults here and they can presumably make an informed decision on that.

Synmpathies from me too Fozzy, it must be very hard.

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MY COMMENTS ARE FROM THE HORSES MOUTH AND ARE ALL FACTS

I suppose the difficulty is partly when the person in question is dependent on others to do the deed. I suspect that if I were in that position I would hesitate long and hard before asking my husband or children to help, even by way of taking me to a doctor and starting the process, because of the inevitable pressure it would put on them and the longer lasting effects, potentially for the rest of their lives. But maybe if I were in sufficient pain or depression for long enough, and indeed if the position was such that they could feel unconditionally that they were helping me, that would be different.

I know someone who took his mother to Dignitas. I can't give any details though. It wasn't an easy decision, but I think I would have done the same.

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Sick Left-wing Zealot.

My sister was a sister (sic) in the NHS. She worked in dialysis.

As part of her job she dialysed old people with things like cancer secondaries, you know things that would ensure a pretty awful death. It would have been so much more humanitarian to withhold dialysis and provide sedation. She hated her job. Especially as her employers were covering their asses against christian based woo....

Sorry Abers.... I hate 'christains' and their shitty self righteousness. My life is not christians' business. So fuck your religion.

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You may say I'm a dreamer.... but I'm not the only one....

Shome mishtake, Rob. I'm no Christian. Or even a "Christain". Certainly not my religion. Not that I have one.

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I'm a nasty, violent lefty. You cunt.

No i just wanted to use the word 'christain' again because their attitude on suffering.... Well the
Romans had the right idea....

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You may say I'm a dreamer.... but I'm not the only one....

Personally I do not think that the government should have any say in what people want to do with their own bodies, and therefore if they wish to be euthanised and are sane, then they should be allowed to die with dignity.
If your pet cat is suffering a horrible and incureable illness, you put it down because it is the kindest thing too do. If a human is suffering a horrible and incurable illness, and wants to end their suffering, they cannot legally be allowed to, because it is 'wrong' according to the moralist theocracy brigade. Why should felis catus have a kinder way out than homo sapiens?

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"We were only following orders" - Atos.

Ha..... A very good post.

If anyone has any other ideas, apart from shitstains getting themselves to heaven, why euthanasia is wrong.... I am all ears...

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You may say I'm a dreamer.... but I'm not the only one....

I'm largely in favour of allowing euthanasia. But at what point would one draw the line as to when it's allowed and when it's not? How does one decide whether a person is capable of consenting? I have no doubt that legalising euthanasia would provide a much more dignified end for hundreds, maybe thousands a year. From an economic point of view, it saves money for the NHS, care homes and other such services. But I wouldn't want to see it abused.

I would like to have it available as an option.

The living will appears the best suggestion so far to cover cases of incompetence.



I have a couple of areas of doubt:

One revolves around locked in syndrome - I'm not sure that there have been sufficient cases to fully understand its progression.
The other is Alzheimers.

In either case I wonder whether one could be rendered incompetent of external communication, but internally be dreaming / perceiving the best days of your life.
Likewise the dreams / imagination could cause the intolerable pain of a living nightmare.

I hope (Though as a scientist I'm not sure how you'd do it) we'll progress to be able to detect a state of happiness or distress in those unreachable minds.
Because ultimately I'd like to fine tune any living will to keep me ticking over if I'm enjoying the life of a lotus eater 24/7.