The NHS

Althea · **Posted:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:21 pm

Winegums wrote:

I'm sorry to hear you've had mixed experiences with the NHS. I think your problems do highlight an important point that keeps coming up with the Tories. They present the whole situation as a dichotomy - you either like their reforms or you think the NHS is perfect. They certainly don't want to entertain the more complex thought that actually, the NHS isn't perfect but the suggested reforms aren't going to help either.

It's certainly not a black and white issue, and it'll vary from county to county, PCT to PCT, even surgery to surgery.

Abernathy · **Posted:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:59 pm

Tubby Isaacs · **Posted:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:03 pm

Althea wrote:

Winegums wrote:

I'm sorry to hear you've had mixed experiences with the NHS. I think your problems do highlight an important point that keeps coming up with the Tories. They present the whole situation as a dichotomy - you either like their reforms or you think the NHS is perfect. They certainly don't want to entertain the more complex thought that actually, the NHS isn't perfect but the suggested reforms aren't going to help either.

It's certainly not a black and white issue, and it'll vary from county to county, PCT to PCT, even surgery to surgery.

Yeah, it certainly does. One of the more ridiculous aspects of NHS politics is that the same person will criticise the "monolithic" NHS, and a minute later complain about the "postcode lottery".

I'm sorry to hear you got the wrong end of that lottery.

Althea · **Posted:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:06 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

Yeah, it certainly does. One of the more ridiculous aspects of NHS politics is that the same person will criticise the "monolithic" NHS, and a minute later complain about the "postcode lottery".

It's all just politics to me, so a lot goes woooosh. I guess it's just a case of living where you do, there's little you can do but hope it improves or that you can move and get help elsewhere.

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

I'm sorry to hear you got the wrong end of that lottery.

Thanks.

Winegums · **Joined:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:04 pm **Posts:** 710

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... ot-pension

I wonder if this will be seen by the public as "see, greedy bastard doctors are only interested in themselves". I suppose no matter what happens, doctors striking is going to give the government more headaches.

Malcolm Armsteen · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:16 pm

They, and their lickspittles in the tabloid press, will turn it against the doctors by fair means and foul.

oboogie · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:09 pm

Grayling will simply explain how the BMA is a front organisation for the SWP and the Mail will denounce them as traitors.

Winegums · **Joined:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:04 pm **Posts:** 710

oboogie wrote:

Grayling will simply explain how the BMA is a front organisation for the SWP and the Mail will denounce them as traitors.

Dunno if that'll wash with the readership, will it? Doctor is very very People Like Us material. The problem with the NHS is either incompetent managers or lazy nurses, not the doctors who went to the right schools now and earn a tidy sum.

Malcolm Armsteen · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:57 am

IPSOS MORI VERACITY INDEX: 2011

Q. "...would you tell me if you generally trust them to tell the truth, or not?"

Doctors 89%
Teachers 86%
Professors 77%
Judges 75%
Scientists 67%
Clergyman/Priests 75%
The Police 61%
Television news readers Ordinary man/ woman in the street 68%
Civil Servants 43%
Pollsters 48%
Trade Union Officials 36%
Business Leaders 28%
Journalists 17%
Government Ministers 19%
Politicians generally 18%

Bones McCoy · **Joined:** Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:08 am **Posts:** 7330

Malcolm Armsteen wrote:

IPSOS MORI VERACITY INDEX: 2011

Q. "...would you tell me if you generally trust them to tell the truth, or not?"

Doctors 89%
Teachers 86%
Professors 77%
Judges 75%
Scientists 67%
Clergyman/Priests 75%
The Police 61%
Television news readers Ordinary man/ woman in the street 68%
Civil Servants 43%
Pollsters 48%
Trade Union Officials 36%
Business Leaders 28%
Journalists 17%
Government Ministers 19%
Politicians generally 18%

Surprised to see Professors and other "Book learnin' types" at least 50% ahead of salt of the earth common-sense journalists...

Looking in greater depth, the trust index shows an almost inverse proportion to appearance time on current affairs programming.
The typical fare I'm served up is a journalist reporting a speech from a government minister, with commentary from politicians and business leaders (None of whom scrape 30%).
Does this imply that the news media merry-go-round is limited to a single narrow caste?

oboogie · **Posted:** Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:47 pm

Kreuzberger · **Posted:** Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:16 am

Malcolm Armsteen wrote:

IPSOS MORI VERACITY INDEX: 2011

Q. "...would you tell me if you generally trust them to tell the truth, or not?"

Doctors 89%
Teachers 86%
Professors 77%
Judges 75%
Scientists 67%
Clergyman/Priests 75%
The Police 61%
Television news readers Ordinary man/ woman in the street 68%
Civil Servants 43%
Pollsters 48%
Trade Union Officials 36%
Business Leaders 28%
Journalists 17%
Government Ministers 19%
Politicians generally 18%

Few surprises in there given the cynicism that is out there on the street. The one big surprise that that Pollsters are so suspect; they get paid whatever the result and even more startling is that these answers were given to -er- pollsters and respondents are rarely likely, if ever, to impune an interviewer.

smod · **Posted:** Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:26 am

People put quite a bit of trust in the stranger in the street.

Kreuzberger · **Posted:** Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:31 am

smod wrote:

People put quite a bit of trust in the stranger in the street.

Dunno is that is sarcastic or not but I have always found that those who stop for interviewers are usually fairly affable types...or mad.

Althea · **Posted:** Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:32 am

Malcolm Armsteen wrote:

Q. "...would you tell me if you generally trust them to tell the truth, or not?"

My answers:
Doctors - Yes.
Teachers - Semi-truth. Trust me, do A-Level Chem/Physics and you lose all faith in teaching.
Professors - Depends on their field and level of expertise .
Judges - I trust them to find the truth.
Scientists - Generally, but there are some bad apples.
Clergyman/Priests - Depends on the topic, but generally I would say I disagree with their opinions.
The Police - I would think so.
Television news readers Ordinary man/ woman in the street - No.
Civil Servants - Are they those who advise the government?
Pollsters - Who?
Trade Union Officials - Don't know nuffink about unions.
Business Leaders - Only if they said "We like money"
Journalists - Depends on the source. I would trust a journalist to bend or even flat-out misrepresent the truth.
Government Ministers - Ha. Haha. No.
Politicians generally - No.

So, am I insane or sane?

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