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 Post subject: Death of free speech? Or over zealous policing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:46 am 
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I'm sure you're all familiar with the case by now of Azhar Ahmed who's been charged with a ‘racially aggravated public order offence’ for posting this alleged comment on Facebook.

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I fail to understand the racial connotations there. If this doesn't get thrown out of the courts then it'll be a sad day indeed. When you consider just how much the EDL get away regularly in their Facebook comments. The stupidity of such an arrest only helps the far right argue racism cuts both ways - yet there's nothing racist at all in that comment.

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Unconditional support for soldiers is now expected, even as we become increasingly unsure of what they’re doing out there. From the most ardent supporter of the war to the most strident critic, everyone claims to be acting in the interest of Our Brave Boys. This is now not a matter of politics, but loyalty. This question is compounded in Ahmed’s case, as the six soldiers killed were all from the local Yorkshire Regiment. Ahmed’s home town Dewsbury was also home of Britain’s best-known suicide bomber, Mohammad Sidique Khan, in the months before his attack on London. Suspicion of young Muslims voicing anti-troops opinions in the area is predictable.

But still the “racially aggravated” charge doesn’t stick, unless one is willing to buy into the notion that Afghanistan is part of an ethno-religious war between “Islam” and “the West”. This is the line that the likes of Anjem Choudary have been pushing for years. And now it seems West Yorkshire police agree.


http://blog.indexoncensorship.org/2012/ ... har-ahmed/

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 Post subject: Re: Death of free speech? Or over zealous policing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:52 am 
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I agree now, there's nothing that I can see that falls foul of racism laws or otherwise. The part saying "soldiers should die" is the part which most people are taking umbrage with, and even that's a bit poor taste but not really illegal.


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 Post subject: Re: Death of free speech? Or over zealous policing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:57 am 
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I don't think there's any racial connotations there at all, and it would take some extreme reading outside of the lines to view it that way. But I think what some might be doing is reading his anger at the military as incitement of hatred or something.

I find his comments about the soldiers et al utterly disgusting, though, and I think that's what's got people riled.

And his English? Doesn't help. "Innocent harmful familys"? The hell is that supposed to mean?

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 Post subject: Re: Death of free speech? Or over zealous policing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:06 am 
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The thing is up to the bit where he says soldiers should die I actually agree with him. We hear nothing about the innocent people killed by both sides in the conflict. The guy is a bit of a dick. But if we make "being a dick" a criminal offence then the prisons will be overrun in no time.

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 Post subject: Re: Death of free speech? Or over zealous policing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:06 am 
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You might not agree with the sentiment, but there's enough anger in the Muslim communities and wider about Afghanistan and the treatment of civilians over there.

According to the CPS:

Quote:
Racially aggravated offences are offences where the offender shows or is driven by racial hostility. They are offences where:

At the time of committing the offence, or immediately before or after doing so, the offender demonstrates hostility towards the victim based on the victim's membership (or presumed membership) of a racial group;

Or the offence is motivated (wholly or partly) by hostility towards members of a racial group based on their membership of that group.


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Public Order offences

fear or provocation of violence (Section 4 of the Public Order Act 1986)
intentional harassment, alarm or distress (Section 4A of the Public Order Act 1986)
harassment, alarm or distress (Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986)


http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/fact_sheets/ ... _offences/

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http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-n ... sh-soldier

Yes, the EDL intend to protest the court hearing. I don't expect a lot to turn out but this can all have been avoided with a little common sense by the police.

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 Post subject: Re: Death of free speech? Or over zealous policing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:09 am 
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Maybe this is just a rouse for them to get them in one place and arrest them for racial hatred as well?

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 Post subject: Re: Death of free speech? Or over zealous policing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:20 am 
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One could hope, but if anything happened to this lad then it could result in possibly martyrdom, and we don't need that.

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 Post subject: Re: Death of free speech? Or over zealous policing?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:23 pm 
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Yesterday it was announced that Scott McHugh was thrown out of the army last week for his racist postings about wanting to shoot "towel-heads in Afghan".
That is the difference between him and Azhar Ahmed. McHugh was being racist by wanting to kill Afghans in general (I doubt anybody would have objected if he had said Taliban) whereas Ahmed was directing his anger at soldiers. Soldiers are not a race.

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 Post subject: Re: Death of free speech? Or over zealous policing?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:18 am 
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It is getting a bit ridiculous that every daft posting on Facebook can now be regarded as criminal.


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 Post subject: Re: Death of free speech? Or over zealous policing?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:44 am 
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It's not racist, but the guy is a tool.

There are ways and means of expressing your contempt for actions, and castigating people for an act and then wishing effectively the same act on them is the recourse of an idiot/someone in a heightened emotional state. I don't count this as the latter.

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 Post subject: Re: Death of free speech? Or over zealous policing?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:01 pm 
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I don't think all racist speech should be policed. Incitement, of any kind, is a different matter.

Racism is ridiculously stupid. It is a public display of self hatred. "Hey I haven't achieved anything so I will take pride in the achievements of those with the same racial characteristics/skin color as me, while putting down, or highlighting the lack of, achievements from those with different racial characteristics/skin color."

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 Post subject: Re: Death of free speech? Or over zealous policing?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:14 pm 
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He did indeed act like a complete idiot, but I too cannot see any racial intent behind that post, only a hatred of soldiers (which given the mass media and public wanking over the army that is curreny going on, he should have known better).

Is it perhaps just been used as means to appease those who complain all the time that only white people are arrested for racist comments and incitement to racial hatred? Could they be making the most of this now very public comment by a non-white Brit to make such idiots happy?

I'm not excusing the guy's obvious stupidity, but is he been used for the benefit of others?

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 Post subject: Re: Death of free speech? Or over zealous policing?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:26 pm 
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What a surprise....

Quote:
A YORKSHIRE teenager today denied posting a grossly offensive message on Facebook about the deaths of six British soldiers in Afghanistan.

Azhar Ahmed, 19, appeared at Dewsbury Magistrates’ Court charged under the Communications Act 2003 with sending a message that was grossly offensive on March 8.

A racially-aggravated public order charge was withdrawn at today’s hearing and Ahmed denied the new charge that was put to him.


Ahmed, of Fir Avenue, Ravensthorpe, West Yorkshire, was bailed and will stand trial at Huddersfield Magistrates’ Court on July 3. He has been bailed to an address not given to court.

There was a large police presence outside court as around 50 far-right protesters staged a noisy demonstration when the defendant arrived and left.


The six soldiers were killed by an improvised explosive device in Lashkar Gah on March 6 in the deadliest single attack on British forces in Afghanistan since 2001.

Sergeant Nigel Coupe, 33, of 1st Battalion The Duke of Lancaster’s Regiment was killed alongside Corporal Jake Hartley, 20, Private Anthony Frampton, 20, Private Christopher Kershaw, 19, Private Daniel Wade, 20, and Private Daniel Wilford, 21, all of 3rd Battalion the Yorkshire Regiment.

Ahmed’s court appearance coincided with the repatriation of the soldiers’ bodies, which are being flown to RAF Brize Norton in Oxforshire later today.


http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at- ... -1-4363758

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