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You may say I'm a dreamer.... but I'm not the only one....

http://www.isthatcherdeadyet.co.uk/

I can't find it in me to wish for the death of a human but I am struck by the intensity of revulsion for her actions, even now. The internet is awash with stuff on her death and the level of animosity is intense. I share in this because people around me directly suffered immense problems because of her actions. We're talking catastrophic changes, which reverberate to this day.

I am intrigued though. George Galloway can stick it up Labour's arse, although rumours abound about postal vote rigging and him not being clear on the difference between Bradford and Burnley. Imagine Thatcher drops dead tomorrow, which my intuition suggests is very likely. Then what? Will the Labour vote be bolstered?

I have to say, I have a strong hunch that Thatcher is on her way out any day now. Also, the Queen will be soon after her and everyone will be shocked. I don't know if it is wishful thinking, although it is a possibility. I think perhaps, for some reason or other, the public are good at blinding themselves to the simple fact that both of these old Dorises are very elderly.

Thatch I can see dropping dead soon, she is visibly more decrepit with every appearance. Brenda on the other hand, I anticipate clocking up her century at least.

On the hatred for Thatcher: there's understandably so much focus on all of the tangible stuff, the destruction of Britain's primary and secondary sectors, the decimation of whole regions and the flogging of our assets for private gain that an even greater harm is sometimes overlooked. The reason I still hate her so much is the sea change she brought in our society, the greed is good culture, the notion that the weak are easy pickings to be exploited, the measure of a person's worth is what they own not what they do. That is why it is acceptable to so many people that the Coalition are giving away (amongst many other things) our NHS - 30 years ago no government would dare suggest the NHS bill.

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That subtle admixture of the absurd and the surreally plausible...

You have it, precisely.

I was born right on the tail end of Thatcher's reign, so I can't speak about what she did or anything because I didn't know.

That said, I think Thatcher is more than just an old woman. She's almost a symbolic manifestation now, she represents a lot of the damage that's happened to this country. Not just attitudes, but things like the mines and so on. I think it might not be a case of people hating Thatcher and wishing her dead, but more hating what she represents and wishing that dead.

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Changin' avatars like there's no tomorrow

I don't remember Hitler, but I'm pretty sure that he was evil. So sorry, I'm calling you out on that. Age is no excuse. You're intelligent and curious, if you want to you can find out.


Of course. This isn't personal, how could it be? I never met her.

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That subtle admixture of the absurd and the surreally plausible...

Last I checked, Thatcher didn't cause a world war. I'm not using my age as an excuse, I'm saying I wasn't there to experience what happened - so unlike many members of this site (or even in this country), I don't harbour the hatred for her. I can read Wikipedia, I could Google her and find out about what she did - but it isn't the same. I have distance, no emotional investment, nothing like that, and I don't think Hitler is a particularly valid comparison. He was an extreme example of evil. I mean he was completely out there with the worst people in history.

Just doing a quick look into things, it appears she did a great many things the British public didn't agree with nor support. I think that's bad, yes, but again - my perspective, my level of involvement, it's completely different.


Easily - the things she did weren't just like the current Tories being out of touch, they were actually damning things that affected many people in this country. For the miners, it's personal. Their livelihoods were cut short because of this woman. For them, it's a personal grudge.

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Changin' avatars like there's no tomorrow

Pretty much. I'd rather her pernicious ideology and the attitudes she fostered died quickly than Thatcher herself.

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Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle.

You're missing my point. I'm not comparing Thatcher with Hitler in terms of the harm that they caused, but in their relative historical terms. I can remember her, you can't. I was using Hitler as an example of someone who is a historical character for both of us and saying that just because he was dead before we were born doesn't preclude us from making a valid judgement on him. It's called education. I could (should) have used a different example.

So as I wasn't working in any of the industries she destroyed or living in any of the communities that she devastated I didn't "experience what happened" either, does that mean I can't have strong feelings about her? What about empathy?

I think we are at cross purposes about what we mean by the word "personal".
When I use "personal" I'm referring to Margaret Thatcher, the private person as opposed to her professional life.
What Thatcher the politician did to the miners, dockers, steel-workers, railwaymen etc etc was her at work, in her profession.
When I say I hate her, what I mean is that I hate what she did and what she stood for in her professional career. That's not the same as hating the person.

I have a few Tory friends, I like them but hate their politics.

Also, as I have said elsewhere, this government's legacy may well prove to be even worse than Thatcher's.

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That subtle admixture of the absurd and the surreally plausible...

You didn't miss much.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/12/david-cameron-no-alternative-yet?cat=commentisfree&type=article

Jeebus on a fucking sledge. Anna Soubry as the next Tory leader. Well, we live in hope.....

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I'm a nasty, violent lefty. You cunt.

Forked.

he's a;so touting Priti Patel.

Might as well have Christine Hamilton.

(After all, everybody else has)

Bollocks.
Those photos were 'shopped I tell yer.

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That subtle admixture of the absurd and the surreally plausible...

The thing with Thatcher is even the lefties in the UK will never hate her as much as the mail and mailites hate Blair. Never has a prime minister, who, big negatives aside, objectively improved things for a lot of people, been so irrationally hated.

I suppose you could say the same thing about Thatcher, to an extent, however I was certainly better off under Blair. It works both ways I suppose although I am fairly sure more people benefited under Blair, even mailites, they just couldn't bring themselves to thank him.

Which would have been the decent thing to do.....

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You may say I'm a dreamer.... but I'm not the only one....