Phone Hacking

Malcolm Armsteen · **Posted:** Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:21 pm

It's still a crime.

Kreuzberger · **Posted:** Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:25 pm

Arnold wrote:

Malcolm Armsteen wrote:

lord_kobel wrote:

Theft is taking something from someone. Copywrite infringment is copying something, so the original is still there. Nothing has been taken.

That, with all due respect, is disingenuous nonsense.

True AIUI. Theft requires the intention of permanently depriving the owner of something. Which is why the offence of "Taking Without Owner's Consent" had to be introduced to deal with joyriders. The position with Copyright Infringement is similar. It can't be treated as theft.

You steal my work, my original ideas, my intellectual property and you deprive me of the fees/royalties/residuals that I am due on that work. That's the law. Anyone is free to disagree with the law and argue for change through the democratic process. But, not to ignore it without the consequences as provided for within that law.

Whether that is "theft" is a moot and largely irrelevant point. That's why we have the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.

Winegums · **Joined:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:04 pm **Posts:** 711

Althea wrote:

Companies like Valve, granted they started some time ago, are entirley self-funded and are pretty huge now.

Because they make an absolute killing from Steam. If Valve continued as they did now without Steam, they'd have filed for bankruptcy years ago, and their early successes haven't been self-made. They had publishers supporting them (largely Sierra) and the PC gaming community via Counter-Strike, which itself was originally a mod that they somehow acquired and turned into a product.[/quote]

Not sure about them filing for bankruptcy, their existing game lineup was pretty well established. It's arguable that they've become an on-line publisher of sorts now, that things are sold over Steam. however I think it's vastly more accessible than the traditional high-street store option and can give very very small companies a chance to get started. It's a Good Thing, and a real step in the right direction. One wonders if netflix could go in a similar way.

Fozzy wrote:

You could equally well say that it's not a crime to steal from Tesco's whereas it is a crime to steal from a little old lady. Try telling that to the judge.

Oh I know it's not legal, but I'm increasingly feeling, as social inequality becomes greater and greater, that really the law is very divorced from ethics when it comes to elements of greed and equality.

Fozzy · **Posted:** Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:16 am

Miliband is on LBC at the moment giving Hunt and Cameron a good kicking. Highly enjoyable, the boy's doing well.

Tubby Isaacs · **Posted:** Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:27 pm

Ex-Scottish First Minister sueing for being hacked.

Old Rupes couldn't have passed anything on to Salmond, could he?

Arnold · **Posted:** Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:02 pm

Kreuzberger wrote:

You steal my work, my original ideas, my intellectual property and you deprive me of the fees/royalties/residuals that I am due on that work. That's the law. Anyone is free to disagree with the law and argue for change through the democratic process. But, not to ignore it without the consequences as provided for within that law.

Whether that is "theft" is a moot and largely irrelevant point. That's why we have the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.

Look, I'm certainly not defending copyright infringement. Just making the point that it isn't theft as such. The police won't be interested, and the victim has to start a civil action. Probably pointless with digital media and the Internet.
If and when I publish my ebook, it will probably be for a token 99c. in the hope that it won't be thought worth pirating. I refuse to consider DRM. I've got several protected Mobipocket format books that I can't currently read in the absence of a working reader that can display them.

Malcolm Armsteen · **Posted:** Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:06 pm

If you are depriving someone of royalties or fees to which they are entitled, however you mangle semantics to avoid the word 'theft' you are doing something which is morally wrong.
Personally I avoid doing things that I know are wrong.

See Kohlberg's stages of moral development.

Arnold · **Posted:** Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:39 pm

As I said above, I agree it's wrong. Just pointing out the practical problems of enforcing copyright of copyright digital material. Unfortunately, I think it's something that right-holders will have to live with. The problem is insoluble.

satnav · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:50 pm

There's a nice bit here about Warsi's appearance on the World at One.

Quote:

On the World at One Martha Kearney tried her hardest to get Lady Warsi (pictured), the Conservative co-chairman, to take a pop at John Bercow over his decision to allow the Hunt UQ. Warsi wouldn't bite. But she did criticise Labour for raising the issue.

If you go out and speak to ordinary people, this is not what they are obsessing about. When people look in Westminster Village and see us obsessing about these kinds of issues, and see us playing party politics, using systems and processes to score points against each other in this way, they say 'a plague on all their houses'. What people care about is their schools, their future, and that is what they want us to be talking about.

That's right the public aren't interested in widespread corruption in the political system. An Warsi would never resort to trying to score cheap political points.

Tubby Isaacs · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:30 pm

What a patronising idiot. The public gave all the impression of caring quite a lot when they learned Milly Dowler had been hacked.

Nice sighting of Westminster Village there too.

mojojojo · **Joined:** Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:33 pm **Posts:** 4311

Some Telegraph hack on Westminster Hour last night said that noone on the bus or down the Dog Aand Duck was talking about Hunt or Leveson.

Don't you just love that? Like Telegraph hacks travel on the bus. I particularly like the phrase 'Dog and Duck' - a pub like those ones the working classes go in to drink themselves into a stupor and play shove ha'penny.

Tubby Isaacs · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:35 pm

BBC leading with some sprinters competing in the Olympics and some old news about air-to-surface missiles at the Olympics.

satnav · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:23 pm

Amongst other bullshit in Dave's statement he claimed he wasn't a Murdoch stooge because he had decided to put Cable in charge of the BSKYB bid which is a bit of a red herring because who else could he have given the job to other than the Business secretary? He also went with the argument that there were more important things to deal with than this which a bit of a bogus argument because it really wouldn't take up that much time to refer this to the civil servant in charge of policing the ministerial, if this had been done last week there would have been no need for Cameron to have made a statement today.

Tubby Isaacs · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:37 pm

Cable indeed is the one bit that doesn't fit. Maybe they thought he actually was a social democrat and would walk out.

Bones McCoy · **Joined:** Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:08 am **Posts:** 7339

satnav wrote:

Amongst other bullshit in Dave's statement he claimed he wasn't a Murdoch stooge because he had decided to put Cable in charge of the BSKYB bid which is a bit of a red herring because who else could he have given the job to other than the Business secretary? He also went with the argument that there were more important things to deal with than this which a bit of a bogus argument because it really wouldn't take up that much time to refer this to the civil servant in charge of policing the ministerial, if this had been done last week there would have been no need for Cameron to have made a statement today.

There's also the argument that the less time that guys like Dave, Gidoen, Maude and Fox spend on other things the better it will turn out.

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