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Would you vote for the LibDems again next time around?
Yes 8%  8%  [ 6 ]
No 58%  58%  [ 43 ]
Probably 5%  5%  [ 4 ]
Probably not 28%  28%  [ 21 ]
Total votes : 74
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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:05 am 
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Been thinking a bit about Lib Dem leadership strategy. Probably from Clegg's point of view,he has been a success as a Lib Dem leader by dint of getting them into government - something not achieved by any of his predecessors for generations. But he has done this, it would increasingly seem, at a terrible price - the near complete electoral obliteration of his party in local elections, and, we can anticipate, at the next general election in 2015. One wonders whether on that basis he will be judged by history to have be been a success strategically, or a shocking failure.

When Clegg signed up to a coalition agreement with Tories in 2010 I admit to being somewhat shocked. Certainly, under previous leaders such as Charlie Kennedy or Ming Campbell, I had gone along with the general view of the Lib Dems as broadly progressive in nature. I took the view that the likes of Kennedy or Campbell had their own personal lines in the sand, based strongly on the principle that they would not enter coalition with non-progressive parties such as the Tories.

I still believe that to have been the case, even though one of the key drivers for both Clegg and Cameron to form the coalition was the agreement made in 2004 by Tories and Lib Dems to take control of Birmingham City Council, albeit that the Birmingham coalition was driven more by a shared hatred of Labour on the part of the leadership of both Birmingham parties than by anything else.

In a delicious irony, the "progressive partnership" in Birmingham was swept away this year by a resurgent Labour party, partly because the parties' national leadership had followed their example of 8 years before.


However, more of a key driver towards coalition was, I think, the nature of the Lib Dem national leadership, specifically Clegg, but also other "orange bookers" such as Laws and Alexander, who in reality are more radically conservative in their outlook than some Tories, and form a natural fit with them. Indeed, my view is these individuals really ought to be in the Conservative party.

So, Clegg took the opportunity of red boxes and Downing St offices and ministerial cars. Substantially, one feels because he simply could not resist it, but primarily because he arguably had his own line in the sand all along, whereby he would never take his party into coalition with Labour. That was certainly true as long as Brown led Labour , and Clegg said so at the time. Cameron's role in putting a "big, fair, and comprehensive offer" to Clegg in the days following the election should not be forgotten - clearly Cameron had the future of his own leadership uppermost in his mind too - for all the waffle aboutcoming together in the national interest.

Many rank and file Lib Dems, I believe, still wish that Clegg had never taken them across that line in the sand into partnership with the Tories, as it may yet prove to have been catastrophic for the party's very existence.

From Labour's point of view, it may find itself in a situation where it finds it necessary to seek an agreement with the Lib Dems. But Clegg has also, I'd suggest, effectively also drawn a new line in the sand which Labour now cannot cross - just as Clegg refused to deal with Brown, so it would now be impossible for Labour to deal with Clegg (or Laws or Alexander).

So I think that strategically, Clegg's leadership has failed. He has, for the sake of a single term as a junior coalition partner to a reactionary senior partner, trashed his party's progressive credentials, perhaps fatally damaged its short to medium term electoral prospects, and damaged the country via his craven complicity in the Tories' shameful ideological attack on the NHS, to give but one instance of the damage inflicted by this government, as well as poisoning any future prospect of his party's participation in a genuinely progressive coalition.

He fully deserves the opprobrium he now attracts, and the oblivion to which he will in time be consigned.

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Last edited by Abernathy on Fri May 25, 2012 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:16 am 
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From Labour's point of view, it may find itself in a situation where it finds it necessary to seek an agreement with the Lib Dems. But Clegg has also, I'd suggest, effectively also drawn a new line in the sand which Labour now cannot cross - just as Clegg refused to deal with Brown, so it would now be impossible for Labour to deal with Clegg (or Laws or Alexander).


Bingo!

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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:57 pm 
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I agree completely, but would add that Clegg, Alexander, Brake and Huhne aren't just going along with the Tories, this dismantling of the welfare state, in fact dismantling the state altogether is a plank of the orange book platform.


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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Huhne's had the relatively cuddly climate change portfolio, and he might not mind being out of the way now.

If he retains his seat (Ezinra, what do you reckon?) he could be undamaged enough to lead them in future.


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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:35 pm 
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We're doing our best!

The local elections didn't damage the LDs as much as I'd hoped, but it's a strange constituency which is neither obviously Tory nor obviously Labour. The Labour vote is less than one-third of what it was 15 years ago. We're trying to find out how much of that change was structural, how much tactical. If it's mostly the latter, Huhne could be in trouble: in 2005, his majority was only 500, although it increased a bit at the last election.

There has been a rumble about the LibDems de-selecting him over the speeding incident even if he's acquitted, but I don't think it will happen. A couple of councillors resigned the Lib Dem whip but were not re-elected.

As for his leadership prospects, I think they are zero.


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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Keep up the good work!

I was in South Dorset this week. Be great if Labour could get that back. I suppose Weymouth and Portland aren't quite big enough to outvote all the rural bits, like Corfe. If it goes Labour, it'll be vying with Stroud for my favourity constituency.

Weymouth is very friendly. Apart from one cunt overheard in a pub moaning about Poles. To be fair, I think his very drunk mate actaually replied with a reasonable point about Britons moving everywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 6:57 am 
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Weymouth is very friendly


Nice of you to say so. Let me know you're coming next time - I'll buy you a pint. Can't argue with the bit about Weymouth and Portland being lumped in with the rest of South Dorset either. I liked Jim Knight - much more visible than the sawn-off double barrelled name tosser we've got at the moment (common practice as ordered from on high at the last election, apparently). He's jumped on the bandwagon about losing coastguard helicopter cover and....er....that's about it.

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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 8:06 am 
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I heard Clegg talking on the radio during the week about education and child care, and he came over as really quite sensible - though that may have been because it made such a refreshing change from the rabid insanity coming out of Gove's mouth. It made me think that if he'd only had the courage of his convictions on things like student fees and the NHS both the Lib Dems and the country as a whole might not be in such bad shape.


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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:07 am 
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The Red Arrow wrote:
Quote:
Weymouth is very friendly


Nice of you to say so. Let me know you're coming next time - I'll buy you a pint. Can't argue with the bit about Weymouth and Portland being lumped in with the rest of South Dorset either. I liked Jim Knight - much more visible than the sawn-off double barrelled name tosser we've got at the moment (common practice as ordered from on high at the last election, apparently). He's jumped on the bandwagon about losing coastguard helicopter cover and....er....that's about it.


I think the new chap is single barrelled- I saw his picture up in Corfe. Malcolm Armsteen linked to a nice bit of Jim Knight, now in the Lords, shredding some silly bit of Gove. I was impressed.

I'd love a pint- hope to go back next year.

Lovely thing happened in Portland where the bus driver stopped the bus for about 5 minutes to play with his kid who was on the bus.


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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:06 pm 
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Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... meron.html


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/to ... ges-435315

Got to dash - catching a bus to Portland. :D

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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:38 am 
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Clegg on Marr show now. It's getting so that I shout abuse at the TV every time I even hear his smarmy condescending voice.

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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:54 am 
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Was it just me, or did he look very, very, very tired during Marr's intro piece? Something keeping you up, Judas? I would have watched more, but the idiot Platell's legs were putting me off my breakfast.

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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:57 am 
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Pretty desperate lineup on today's show - Clegg, Platell and Tracy Emin. Urgh...


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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:00 am 
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Biased lefty BBC bastards.

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 Post subject: Re: LibDem voters - will you vote for them again?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:19 am 
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Good to see Louise Mensch doing her bit for the floundering Lib Dems.

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2012/05/l ... donations/

Quote:
With UK Uncut protesters targeting Nick Clegg’s house today, Tory MP Louise Mensch reacts by suggesting people, erm, donate to the Liberal Democrats:

Louise Mensch@LouiseMensch
I would never normally do this. I am Tory to the marrow of my bones. But how about £5 to the LibDems today? libdems.org.uk/make_a_donatio… #UKuncut
26 May 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite

Louise Mensch@LouiseMensch
If you believe targeting home & family of a politician you disagree with is intolerable bullying - £5 for Nick Clegg libdems.org.uk/make_a_donatio…
26 May 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite

Suffice it to say Tim Montgomerie is not impressed, pointing out what should be obvious to Mensch — that the cash will be used to campaign against the Tories.


And her response to Montgomerie:

Quote:
@TimMontgomerie we can outspend them a hundred times over at any election.


Outstanding stuff.

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