Gay Marriage

Tubby Isaacs · **Posted:** Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:46 pm

Big Rob wrote:

Quote:

This would entail the cutting of ties between Church and state that have lasted for nearly 500 years, threatening a series of major consequences.

Consequences such as?

Everyone in power having to act Anglican.

Malcolm Armsteen · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:22 pm

Excellent post by Andrew Copson (British Humanist Association) on what would happen if the C of E was disestablished...

Andrew Copson wrote:

...does that mean it's okay to go ahead in Northern Ireland and Wales where the Church isn't established anyway?

...does it mean that removal of the Bishops from the House of Lords (the last thing we were told would mean disestablishment) wouldn't actually mean disestablishment and we can go ahead with removing them?

...how long after the introduction of equal civil marriage does the Church intend to hand over its schools?

...how long after the introduction of equal civil marriage does the Church intend to remove its state-funded chaplains from prisons, hospitals and the armed forces?

...why don't they already consider themselves disestablished by virtue of the fact that most marriages already aren't conducted by them anyway but are civil marriages?

Or is this just is a devious, desperate attempt by shamelessly self-interested moral authoritarians to impose their own limited and unshared view of human relationships on everyone else by threats, scare-mongering and hyperbolic raising of the stakes to distract from the fact that this debate isn't - or shouldn't be - about them but about the civil right of two people in love to have their relationship recognised by their friends and family and the law in the country where they live?

You decide!

Tubby Isaacs · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:03 pm

But he misses the key point- gay marriage is stopping the economy from picking up.

Big Rob · **Posted:** Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:01 am

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

Big Rob wrote:

Quote:

This would entail the cutting of ties between Church and state that have lasted for nearly 500 years, threatening a series of major consequences.

Consequences such as?

Everyone in power having to act Anglican.

"I am a Christian but I am really crap at it. All the real Christians crossed the Atlantic a while ago."

Abernathy · **Posted:** Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:48 am

Nice to hear the BHA talking about equal marriage rather than gay marriage. Billy Bragg also made this point the other day.

Althea · **Posted:** Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:42 am

Abernathy wrote:

Nice to hear the BHA talking about equal marriage rather than gay marriage. Billy Bragg also made this point the other day.

Yeah, I realised that I wasn't doing that myself, so I've largely shifted to marriage equality/equal marriage, or failing that 'same-sex marriage' works almost as well.

Abernathy · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:09 pm

You may already have seen this, but I think it's so marvellous it warrants re-posting here.

The New Zealand parliament passed legislation bringing in equal marriage. When the result was announced, the whole chamber and strangers' gallery burst into spontaneous song.

Just lovely.....

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/04/17/new-zealand-mps-sing-maor_n_3100103.html

mattomac · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:15 pm

This was a great speech by one of the Mp's

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/1 ... 00714.html

GKC · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:56 pm

Malcolm Armsteen wrote:

All marriages are civil, the bit in the church is mostly a blessing and a bit of music. I do wish people (not you, people in the big outside) could get their heads round that.

That's the nub of the issue I think. The state has a definition of marriage and a set of rules governing who can get married. Religious institutions also have their own definitions of marriage and sets of rules. The problem is one of ownership of the definition. Until the two are separated fully - i.e. state and religious marriages there will continue to be conflict.

As an aside, Malcolm, I think you're looking at this from the perspective of the state. From a religious perspective it's the ceremony in church which matters - the civil part is just squaring things with the state.

Tubby Isaacs · **Posted:** Mon May 20, 2013 10:32 pm

Vote going on now.

IDS and others have already voted for a "conscience clause" for registrars to opt out of marrying the gays.

Tubby Isaacs · **Posted:** Mon May 20, 2013 10:33 pm

Quote:

Tim Loughton's amendment has been defeated by 375 votes to 70 - a majority of 305.

He insisted it wasn't a wrecking amendment. But many MPs insisted it was. And now it's gone.

Tubby Isaacs · **Posted:** Tue May 21, 2013 12:27 am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/audio ... arth-audio

Quote:

Sir Gerald Howarth MP (Con): 'There are plenty in the aggressive homosexual community who see this as but a stepping-stone'- audio

The pendulum's gone far too far the other way, apparently.

He also makes some pathetic attempt at saying he's being "shouted down". The volume is about a tenth what it is when Ed Balls speaks.

Abernathy · **Posted:** Tue May 21, 2013 12:33 am

Ahh, so that's what that hashtag on Twitter was about......

mattomac · **Posted:** Tue May 21, 2013 10:06 am

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

Vote going on now.

IDS and others have already voted for a "conscience clause" for registrars to opt out of marrying the gays.

Shame he can't put that kind of clause into practice when he dreams up one of his horrible schemes to force those who are ill or disabled "back to work" (or into the job centre which is usually the case).

Timbo · **Posted:** Tue May 21, 2013 11:19 am

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/audio/2013/may/20/same-sex-marriage-howarth-audio

Quote:

Sir Gerald Howarth MP (Con): 'There are plenty in the aggressive homosexual community who see this as but a stepping-stone'- audio

The pendulum's gone far too far the other way, apparently.

He also makes some pathetic attempt at saying he's being "shouted down". The volume is about a tenth what it is when Ed Balls speaks.

Steppi... what???? :lol:

What exactly does he think we'll want next? Our own space programme?

Gay Marriage

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