Discussion of the UK Government
:sunglasses: 50 % :grinning: 50 %
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By JuanTwoThree
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#410867
@Bones. My dad was Royal Welsh Reg, RWAFF, Army in India (not the same as Indian Army, he said).

But in the 30s he had signed the Peace Pledge and joined Plaid so not British enough for Tebbit, I expect.
 
By Bones McCoy
Membership Days Posts
#410885
JuanTwoThree wrote:@Bones. My dad was Royal Welsh Reg, RWAFF, Army in India (not the same as Indian Army, he said).

But in the 30s he had signed the Peace Pledge and joined Plaid so not British enough for Tebbit, I expect.
I probably got the bit about Army in India / Indian army wrong.

The RWAFF => India bit was a bunch of folks shipped to either Ghana or Nigeria where they teamed up with twice as many locals.
After the early demise of the Africa Corps they got shipped off to chase the Japanese out of Burma.
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#410888
Made it to sergeant and did the whole 14-18 stretch in Flanders and Greece. On his return he took the Daily Worker every day. His Britain hating continued in WW2 where he would instruct local home guard to practice invasion resistance in drainage ditches. Pity I wasn't old enough to remember my granddad, a man who was prepared to charge at Panzers with a pitchfork is the sort guy you want covering your back in a tight corner.
 
By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Posts
#410890
My old man hated Britain so much he went to fight Hitler in 1939, got promoted to sergeant, fought in the rearguard back to Dunkirk where he received life-changing wounds of which he died at the age of 52. Told me that if I ever voted anything but Labour he would come back and haunt me...
 
By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#499188
Now I understand he's been through a lot, but I found the reaction of Tebbit to the death of Martin McGuinness today to be particularly spiteful and unpleasant.
I’m just pleased that the world is a sweeter and cleaner place now. He was not only a multi-murderer, he was a coward.

He knew that the IRA were defeated because British intelligence had penetrated right the way up to the army council and that the end was coming.

He then sought to save his own skin and he knew that it was likely he would be charged before long with several murders which he had personally committed and he decided that the only thing to do was to opt for peace.

He claimed to be a Roman Catholic. I hope that his beliefs turn out to be true and he’ll be parked in a particularly hot and unpleasant corner of hell for the rest of eternity.
Like I say, I get that he personally has suffered, along with his wife, due to IRA actions, but he's hardly alone in this. Plenty of other victims of IRA attacks have found it in themselves to, if not forgive, then to at least concede that McGuinness later in his life was instrumental in the Peace Process (which pretty much everyone should hail as a good thing) and praised him for that accordingly, but it seems Tebbit's reaction is particularly vitriolic, especially given at the absolute basic level there are people out there who have lost a father / grandfather today.

Still, maybe he's getting in early because he knows when it's his turn to kick the bucket there won't be a long queue of people to say nice things about him.
 
By Samanfur
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#499189
I couldn't help contrasting Tebbit's reaction to Colin Parry's:
"I don't forgive Martin nor the IRA and nor does my wife and children," he said.

But he added that he found Mr McGuinness "an easy and pleasant man to talk to".

"He was a man who, I believe, was sincere in his desire for peace and to maintain the peace process at all costs," he said.

"He deserves great credit for his recent life - rather than his earlier life for which I don't think anything in his recent life can atone.

"He was still a brave man who put himself at some risk within some elements of his own community in Northern Ireland."
Not forgiving and not forgetting, but keeping his dignity.
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#499205
Nasty bitterness from a nasty, bitter man. I think the reconciliation between Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley, and the way that peace returned to Northern Ireland was one of the better, more uplifting events of the 1990s.

My late father in law was Irish, from Tipperary, and he was really pleased that, late in his life, the two sides had got together.

Screw you Tebbit, you grade A James Hunt
By Silkyman
Membership Days Posts
#499210
To be brutally honest, if someone targeting me left my wife paralysed after trying to kill us in our sleep, you wouldn't find many kind words from me on their death.

He's clearly an almighty bastard, but I don't begrudge him one iota of bitterness towards the IRA.
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#499211
I am bitter about, and will hate Thatcher, until the day I die. The difference is McGuinness did some bad stuff in the early part of his career, but then changed tack and became a man of peace later, as did Ian Paisley, and for this, he should be given some credit.

Tebbit is a horrible man who pursued the politics of confrontation.
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#499224
Strange logic from Tebbit. McGuinness was a rank coward because he anticipated getting his collar felt and so purely in order to avoid this he decided to pursue a negotiated, democratic peace process in partnership with his most virulent political enemies instead.

Does he mean to suggest that McGuinness would have been a courageous individual if he had shunned the peace process and just stepped up the bombing and murder?
 
By Kreuzberger
Membership Days Posts
#499226
Having wrestled all morning with my reaction to this, I am finding myself agreeing with John Major - AGAIN! - and viewing McGuinness as a wicked, vicious bastard who partly redeemed himself through the peace process and on into government.

Like Silko, I don't begrudge Tebbitt his bitterness but, because his situation was so personal, I don't really see why his view is any more valid than that of anyone else who was caught up in the violence. I am going to contradict myself here because I also applaud the enduring and saintly grace of Colin Parry.

It seems to me that these two men epitomise everything that the UK has become.
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