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Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:38 pm
by KevS
As has been frequently pointed out, the whole shebang was Winstons idea, and Thatch was the architect of the single market.

Neither of them would have had anything to do with this lunacy.

That's how through the looking glass we are now. Holding Thatcher up as a relatively sane voice in years past.

We. Are. Fucked.

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:59 pm
by Bones McCoy
Today I learned that in a Tory world, Billy Ten Pints is the greatest living Tory.

Just think about that.

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:17 pm
by The Red Arrow
Image

Image

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:58 pm
by Watchman
What happens under the covers, stays under the covers

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:09 pm
by Arrowhead
Imagine living in a world where IDS, Howard and Hague are somehow remembered more favourably as Tory leaders than Harold MacMillan.

The Hague numbers are especially confusing. Although he was probably the first ever openly eurosceptic Tory leader, unless my memory is playing tricks I'm pretty sure he argued for Remain in 2016 due to the threat Brexit represented to the potential breakup of the UK? Which, in the current climate, surely marks him down as a treacherous, lily-livered Remoaner?

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:37 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
John Major must be laughing at that poll. He did mostly what they wanted, reasonably efficiently, but was egregiously fucked about by some of the people who are still causing mayhem now.

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:39 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
Arrowhead wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:09 pm
Imagine living in a world where IDS, Howard and Hague are somehow remembered more favourably as Tory leaders than Harold MacMillan.

The Hague numbers are especially confusing. Although he was probably the first ever openly eurosceptic Tory leader, unless my memory is playing tricks I'm pretty sure he argued for Remain in 2016 due to the threat Brexit represented to the potential breakup of the UK? Which, in the current climate, surely marks him down as a treacherous, lily-livered Remoaner?
I suppose they remember Hague more as a very competent dispatch box debater who got a raw deal from the devil himself, Tony Blair.

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:57 pm
by Arrowhead
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:39 pm
I suppose they remember Hague more as a very competent dispatch box debater who got a raw deal from the devil himself, Tony Blair.
Hague was indeed a pretty talented performer in the Commons, and gained the upper hand over Blair on plenty of occasions. But ultimately, most people associate Hague with leading the Tories to a second calamitous defeat in 2001, which was in many ways an even worse result for them than 1997.

Then again, I suppose "most people" do not exactly equate to whatever oddballs make up the Conservative party membership in 2019.

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:57 am
by Dan
I think generally their membership is in three kinds:

The long retired who are comfortable financially, own their own homes, can afford a few holidays a year. While the majority of them likely have grandchildren, I suspect many of them are in low paid, insecure wotk and are not academically gifted which makes them ripe for the mascinations of Yaxley-Lennon and Farage which fuels the anti EU sentiment of the elders.

Giggling privately educated boys who never did and never will have to worry about money as they were assured a directorship in one of daddy's companies or they were of the right "sort" to be parachuted into organising Tory canvassing providing they kiss enough backside to be pushed to the top. I went to secondary school with someone like this. They are usually outwardly or subtly misogynist hence I say "boys".

Your local-boy-made-good entrepreneur who, because they made a financial successes of themselves, literally cannot see why there are barriers to others doing it. They are the School of Hard Knocks, University of Life, you-make-your-own-luck types who think thr youth don't have it bad but need a mighty kick up the arse group.

The first group are generally reactionary more about immigraction as they are more resistant to change being much older (I do not mean all older people, of course) and believe, wrongly, that immigration is damaging their grandchildren's chances and are more sympathetic to the Yaxley-Lennon's of the world.

The second group want a bonfire of regulations as they are so removed from how ordinary people live, they can't begin to get their heads around hardship. They believe workers should be grateful for what they have and are there to be exploited by their "betters" and that food banks, for example, are good because they feed people without any sense of outrage as to how one gets in the position to have to use a foodbank. There is no poverty, just lazy people the guy I went to school with used to point out until we had an argument and I unfriended him on Facebook.

The third group are the nationalistic, "we're being ruled by foreign powers" group and place "sovereignty", Britain standing alone and "independence" above any economic concern. The children of the WW2 generation, they make the most reference to it, they place a vague concept of BritishNess against all else and wish the "snowflake" generation would stand on their own two feet and the EU give them too many opportunities rather than work for it like they did etc.

This is why Boris Johnson is likely next PM as figured in 2016 how to appeal to them all and why Corbyn is being an idiot as he will never appeal to any of them nor anyone flocking to the Brexit Party.

This does not mean it is all over. Parliament will have their say and Johnson may betray them. However, this is why this mess is going to get worse before and if it gets better.

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:00 am
by youngian
Parliament will have their say and Johnson may betray them. However, this is why this mess is going to get worse before and if it gets better.

There's a part in many of us that can't wait for Johnson to be PM to really see the Tories flushed down the shitter. The problem is there's still no credible opposition to pick up the pieces and I don't see Jo Swinson setting the world alight.

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:49 pm
by Big Arnold
UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia unlawful, court of appeal declares
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/ju ... d-unlawful

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:18 pm
by Big Arnold
Homelessness minister accused of racist remarks about rough sleepers

Exclusive: Heather Wheeler urged to quit after she referred to ‘old tinkers, knife-cutters’
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... s-in-email

Only a Tory government would have a minister devoted to increasing the number of rough sleepers.

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:35 pm
by youngian
Door to door knife sharpeners were a thing in the 1930s, where the hell did she pull that one out from?

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:41 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
Is she thinking of the American "panhandlers" and trying to come up with an equivalent?

Re: The Tories, Generally

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:17 pm
by Timbo
It finished off Basil Brush 11 years ago, it can certainly finish off a low-ranking Tory MP: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/tva ... rushracist