Discussion of the UK Government
:sunglasses: 43.9 % ❤ 2.7 % :thumbsup: 13.3 % 😯 5.1 % :grinning: 24.2 % 🧥 1.6 % 🙏 2.1 % 😟 0.8 % :cry: 5.9 % :shit: 0.5 %
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By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#623997
Another way of winning back support in red wall areas for Labour is to distance themselves from vote losing stupidity, like this gender weirdness and those stupid, narcissistic twats Extinction Rebellion

Voters associate this kind of baggage with the Corbyn element, which is just utterly toxic
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#624010
The thing is that there is a disengagement from politics by a lot of working class voters who think that "they're all the same" "snouts in the trough" and so on. However , they can be motivated to vote for something they believe will give the "rotten system" a kicking.

The Brexit vote was based on this premise, as was Trump in the states. Johnson was able, by following Farages play book, to market himself as an outsider and get these votes.

The other thing is that the Tories, and Republicans, are the parties of "the system", but the sneaky bastards have managed to position themselves as outsiders, with the aid of the bought and paid for media.

If the left is going to do anything, it's going to have to get equally devious, that and ditching the 6th form debating society bell ends
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#624011
Extinction Rebellion could help build Green support, already on 5% in the poll the other day. But Labour need to swerve them and just put forward policies. Corbyn did this quite well, talking about "green jobs", but was too much of beardy to carry it off. Starmer could make that pitch work.
Samanfur, oboogie liked this
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#624014
They need to be marginalised and excluded from grown up politics. Work in conjunction with the Green party, maybe yes, I do agree with them on two or three points, such as wasteful throw away consumerism and unrestricted development in green belt
spoonman liked this
 
By Samanfur
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#624016
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:14 pm
Extinction Rebellion could help build Green support, already on 5% in the poll the other day. But Labour need to swerve them and just put forward policies. Corbyn did this quite well, talking about "green jobs", but was too much of beardy to carry it off. Starmer could make that pitch work.
I've literally just come across an article on issues like this in some of the conference literature. I've uploaded it here, if anyone's interested.
Tubby Isaacs, oboogie liked this
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#624020
It is an interesting article and makes the very good point that there is really two Labours, the metropolitan elite, Guardian reading, Corbyn-ish end, and what I call the proper Labour, of the trade unions, and working people struggling out here in minimum wage land.

The two don't really connect and the article recognises the problem but doesn't really come up with any ideas of how to work together to get the Tories out
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#624022
How many people who live in London are "metropolitan elite" though? Not too many of them live in Erith and Thamesmead, but Labour still won by 9% in 2019. And what about other cities? Do many elite live in Nottingham? Labour won all 3 seats there easily, in a terrible year. So there are still lots of "traditional" Labour voters in cities. The problem comes in smaller towns. God knows what you do about that, except hope that they take to this leader better than the last one, and avoid the obvious traps.
 
By davidjay
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#624047
As I said at the time, Sandwell, where the Tories have been negligible or non-existent at council level for over twenty years, now has three out of four Tory MPS. How do you square that quandry without all roads leading back to Corbyn?
 
By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#624050
davidjay wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:40 pm
As I said at the time, Sandwell, where the Tories have been negligible or non-existent at council level for over twenty years, now has three out of four Tory MPS. How do you square that quandry without all roads leading back to Corbyn?
True but Sandwell Council doesn't have the greatest of reputations.
 
By Bones McCoy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts LikeBB
#624056
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:14 pm
Extinction Rebellion could help build Green support, already on 5% in the poll the other day. But Labour need to swerve them and just put forward policies. Corbyn did this quite well, talking about "green jobs", but was too much of beardy to carry it off. Starmer could make that pitch work.
The messages have lacked fine tuning in the past.
That's what all he Roubles pouring into Tufton Street were supposed to buy, and there's a lesson there.

Where the carefully crafted message doesn't conflict with personal experience, you're just doing Advertising.
Where it grates a little you need the friendly press to do a little polishing.
But when it's in direct opposition, the wheels come off.

Labour's challenge has been alack of fine tuning, and a lack of massage discipline.
On green issues, you are swimming with the tide, but need to block the "Starmer wants to ban your £5 dress fomr Matalan" and "Starmer wants to ban your car repair business".
These are always portrayed as "Guardian/Islington" concerns.

The first fix is through well rounded green policies that don't leave the poor behind.
Ensure that the green jobs will be created in country, attache the costs of disposal and planned obsolescence back on the manufacturer (Much harder to do than say).

Consider electric cars, they'll be good in about 5 years, but not necessarily affordable.
Why not another scrappage scheme to replacet the old gas guzzler for a new electric.
 
By Boiler
Posts LikeBB
#624058
Bones McCoy wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:35 am
Consider electric cars, they'll be good in about 5 years, but not necessarily affordable.
Why not another scrappage scheme to replacet the old gas guzzler for a new electric.
If you live in an urban setting, where do you charge it if your only parking is on-street? What if you live in a block of flats? PHEVs aren't quite as green as you think, primarily because too many people don't bother charging them - they just like the taxation class. Range is becoming less of an issue now: for example, the current Renault Zoe could easily do what was my daily commute on one charge but I would have to have a fast charger at home for the overnight charge.

To my mind, EVs only work if you accept certain lifestyle changes - for me that would mean no more cross-country driving in pursuit of my hobbies for example.

Plus scrappage schemes often result in perfectly serviceable and efficient vehicles being destroyed, as happened with my neighbour's diesel BMW - it wasn't that old, just fell outside one of the 'Euro' emissions classifications.

And don't mention scrappage within the earshot of any classic car enthusiast unless you want to be torn at least one new one.
 
By davidjay
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#624060
The Weeping Angel wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:03 am
davidjay wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:40 pm
As I said at the time, Sandwell, where the Tories have been negligible or non-existent at council level for over twenty years, now has three out of four Tory MPS. How do you square that quandry without all roads leading back to Corbyn?
True but Sandwell Council doesn't have the greatest of reputations.
It doesn't, which makes the situation even more inexplicable.
 
By Bones McCoy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts LikeBB
#624070
Boiler wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:55 am
Bones McCoy wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:35 am
Consider electric cars, they'll be good in about 5 years, but not necessarily affordable.
Why not another scrappage scheme to replacet the old gas guzzler for a new electric.
If you live in an urban setting, where do you charge it if your only parking is on-street? What if you live in a block of flats? PHEVs aren't quite as green as you think, primarily because too many people don't bother charging them - they just like the taxation class. Range is becoming less of an issue now: for example, the current Renault Zoe could easily do what was my daily commute on one charge but I would have to have a fast charger at home for the overnight charge.

To my mind, EVs only work if you accept certain lifestyle changes - for me that would mean no more cross-country driving in pursuit of my hobbies for example.

Plus scrappage schemes often result in perfectly serviceable and efficient vehicles being destroyed, as happened with my neighbour's diesel BMW - it wasn't that old, just fell outside one of the 'Euro' emissions classifications.

And don't mention scrappage within the earshot of any classic car enthusiast unless you want to be torn at least one new one.
I don't know the answer to that, but one of #1 son's housemates is a civil servant who is looking into Infrastructure requirements for a full EV rollout.
Better minds than I are on the case, which involves more than charging locations.
For example a big increase in national grid capacity.
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