[Big Arnold]

The Scottish angle - I didn't know this, so a good bit of background form the BBC.

How 1999 Scottish tower block fire led to regulation change

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40406057

Thanks. It raises the question of why Westminster didn't follow suit.

[Bones McCoy]

The Scottish angle - I didn't know this, so a good bit of background form the BBC.

How 1999 Scottish tower block fire led to regulation change

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40406057

Thanks. It raises the question of why Westminster didn't follow suit.

I think we can guess that Westminster's inhabitants were less well disposed to "red tape".

[mattomac]

I went to play football near by yesterday and visited a pub even nearer by, feels very eerie and the sheer devastation and destruction comes home when you look at it.

Makes me sick that this isn't a tragic accident that no one could have prevented and that those who are to blame sit pontificating about other issues, this isn't May's fault, she was part of the government yes but this lies at the feet of that slimey shitehawk who came before.

[Watchman]

What I keep pondering on when went wrong with all these buildings, its clear is how much is taken on trust when dealing with contracts and how much that assumed trust is abused;

We have a type of cladding that has been tested and deemed not suitable for use, so we assume the construction industry is made aware of this and is trusted not to use it.
So when a potential purchaser i.e. local authority has architects and quantity surveys draws up their speciation to invite tenders one would assume it would not expect to receive any with this material quoted, and one would also expect said architects and quantity surveyors to spot if it did.

So what has happened?
Did the original quotes lie about the cladding they were using
Have the architects etc. been negligent
Has there been any back handers
What has been the role in the planning committee in cutting costs and expecting the work to be done on the cheap
How was a safety certificate granted

At the end of the day, unfortunately, I'm not sure we will ever get a proper outcome from all this

[Big Arnold]

I've seen one report that Kensington Council will be suing as they paid for fire-resistant cladding which wasn't fitted.

[Bones McCoy]

What I keep pondering on when went wrong with all these buildings, its clear is how much is taken on trust when dealing with contracts and how much that assumed trust is abused;

We have a type of cladding that has been tested and deemed not suitable for use, so we assume the construction industry is made aware of this and is trusted not to use it.
So when a potential purchaser i.e. local authority has architects and quantity surveys draws up their speciation to invite tenders one would assume it would not expect to receive any with this material quoted, and one would also expect said architects and quantity surveyors to spot if it did.

So what has happened?
Did the original quotes lie about the cladding they were using
Have the architects etc. been negligent
Has there been any back handers
What has been the role in the planning committee in cutting costs and expecting the work to be done on the cheap
How was a safety certificate granted

At the end of the day, unfortunately, I'm not sure we will ever get a proper outcome from all this

One of the earliest interviews that opened the discussion on building standards asked a few pertinent questions.
Were substandard workmanship and materials involved?
Did the council inspectors sign this off?

There were few answers, except that few councils now retain a full building standards team.
There may be one or two officers, but the legwork is frequently outsourced to commercial surveyors.

Given the plethora of companies, subcontracting, multiple ownerships, in the building industry.
There's a suspicion that suppliers can easily end up "marking their own homework".

I've absolutely no evidence of this, but have seen the effect of outsourcing and subcontracting in other industries.
Accountability and quality frequently suffer, problems fall down the gaps between departmental specialities.
It's difficult to pin down the faulty component in large systems, and expensive and nigh on impossible to invoke compensation for substandard work.

That is the mess that any investigation will need to cut through.

[youngian]

Some good work from GMTV on Grenfell revisiting the story every week. They have an angry resident this morning joining in Morgan and Reed's inquisition giving some Tory from the council a right kicking. Not the first time GMTV has got its teeth into a story and run with it.

[mattomac]

I've been critical of Morgan on a lot of things and rightly so but he seems to have genuine anger on this.

Unlike the likes of Hodges who think we should move on now, nothing to see rubbish that led.

[Bones McCoy]

I've been critical of Morgan on a lot of things and rightly so but he seems to have genuine anger on this.

Unlike the likes of Hodges who think we should move on now, nothing to see rubbish that led.

Morgan has the occasional stopped clock moment.
I think that somewhere under his dark forsaken soul there is a vestige of the ambitious young reporter who wanted to go good and hold power to account.
As with many of his type, it's buried under piles of "Being a cunt pays so much better", and rarely gets an outing.
Especially when you're as good at playing the cunt as Morgan.

[Samanfur]

Victoria Derbyshire empty chaired Kensington and Chelsea Borough Council this morning. She initially empty chaired the government, as well, since the Housing Minister changed his mind over whether he'd show up twice whilst she was on air, and eventually showed up during the second half of her show.

Did anyone else see her broadcast with the survivors this morning? Very powerful stuff.

[Kreuzberger]

I've been critical of Morgan on a lot of things and rightly so but he seems to have genuine anger on this.

Unlike the likes of Hodges who think we should move on now, nothing to see rubbish that led.

Morgan is a tabloid newspaper man, through and through. If he thinks that a subject will chime with (read: rile) his audience, he will sink his teeth in to it, and that is where they will stay.

The fact that we agree with him from time to time doesn't change that.

[davidjay]

I'd like to think Matt and Bones are right but the reason is probably closer to Kreutz. Morgan knows what will get the hits and the ratings. He cares for nothing else.

[Zuriblue]

Very pertinent report from the BBC.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40418266" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It would appear the change in the regulatory mechanisms in 2006 for design safety compliance is indeed the loophole through which the Building Industry via the Building Control Alliance (BCA) industry body has driven a tank through called "BCA guidance documentation" that provides a 'desktop study' mechanism for certifying cladding materials.

Oh and a letter in the Times today



Whatever happened to this guy's son?

[mattomac]

Victoria Derbyshire empty chaired Kensington and Chelsea Borough Council this morning. She initially empty chaired the government, as well, since the Housing Minister changed his mind over whether he'd show up twice whilst she was on air, and eventually showed up during the second half of her show.

Did anyone else see her broadcast with the survivors this morning? Very powerful stuff.

Good

[Bones McCoy]

Victoria Derbyshire empty chaired Kensington and Chelsea Borough Council this morning. She initially empty chaired the government, as well, since the Housing Minister changed his mind over whether he'd show up twice whilst she was on air, and eventually showed up during the second half of her show.

Did anyone else see her broadcast with the survivors this morning? Very powerful stuff.

Good

It's great to see that the media are no longer in awe of this shower of pricks.
They've assumed, taken advantage of unconditional support for too long.
They've felt they can chop and change the rules to suit them.

Perhaps we'll see the government and its members held to account a little more often.
And maybe a few of their "characters" will fail that examination.