[Abernathy]

The flaws :

1) The "sensible deal" that Corbyn proposes to negotiate and secure does not exist. Furthermore, it is highly unlikely ever to come into existence, given the EU's unaltered stance that negotiations are over and the May exit deal cannot be re-visited, and the supreme unlikelihood of Corbyn's proposed deal of "A" customs union (note, specifically not the already extant EU customs union we are in through EU membership), full access to the single market as a non-member state (achievable but at a price), and the full regime of EU employment rights law, environmental, and health and safety regulations being acceptable to the EU.

2. Being in a position to put this mythical beast of a deal on the ballot paper of a final say referendum is totally contingent on Labour being able to form a government after the election, which, given that we need to hold onto seats that look improbably difficult to achieve, such as Canterbury, and also gain 80 plus seats just to be the largest party, and we start from a consistently shit polling position trailing the Tories and Lib Dems, and with a leader about as popular as Harold Shipman, that looks pretty unlikely.

If we fail, it's hello hard Brexit. Which of course is highly likely to be precisely what Mr. Corbyn wants.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I wouldn't trust Seamus not to....

FTFY

[lord_kobel]

Even though he played a prominent role in thwarting Johnson's recent shenanigans, including overseeing the safe passage of the Benn bill into law?

The deluded fuckwit still thinks there's such a thing as a "sensible brexit". I wouldn't trust him not to think that crashing out but with him in power counts as that.

[Bones McCoy]

I despair that after a trio of successively worsetening tory PMs, the 2 main GE contenders are racing Johnson for the treasured fuckup of the year award.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yeah, I think Jez has done quite well lately. Better than the Lib Dems, for sure. He wouldn't get a referendum on Lexit through the Commons anyway.

[Arrowhead]

The deluded fuckwit still thinks there's such a thing as a "sensible brexit". I wouldn't trust him not to think that crashing out but with him in power counts as that.

Does anyone remember the leaked list of Labour MP's from a few years back, whereby every member of the PLP were grouped by their perceived hostility to The Jezziah? I think it's fair to say the Mailwatch equivalent would have plenty of members within the "CORE GROUP NEGATIVE" and "HOSTILE" groupings

[Boiler]

Conservative Party targets over-45s with Facebook Brexit ads

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49727121

[crabcakes_windermere]

The flaws :

1) The "sensible deal" that Corbyn proposes to negotiate and secure does not exist. Furthermore, it is highly unlikely ever to come into existence, ...

2. Being in a position to put this mythical beast of a deal on the ballot paper of a final say referendum is totally contingent on Labour being able to form a government after the election...

This is the crux of it. To get a referendum the Labour way involves Corbyn convincing an electorate - who largely dislike him, and who are largely divided into remain/leave - that he will be neutral on something where being neutral actually means you are very much leave (because the legal consequence is not status quo but no deal) to vote for compromises that he is not clear on. and then to trust that he won't decide to do something stupid in the face of the fact he's pushing on with a policy that has been disastrous so far and goes against what the vast majority of his party want.

His doing quite well has in no small way been down to directly tackling Boris blustering away, the Tories fucking up royally with their PR (in no small part down to Dominic "short" Cummings deludedly believing his own genius/hardman hype) and the issue in question not being one that he disagrees with. Now it has returned to his way or what the party want, we're back to contradictory, vague fudge. The LD position is clear - remain if a referendum comes first, revoke if elected outright. The Tory position is clear - no deal. The Brexit party position is clear: no deal. The Green party position is clear - remain. The SNP position is clear - remain. PC's position is clear - remain at referendum, revoke if GE comes up.

Only Labour are sitting on the fence, and they are only doing that because Corbyn wants to retain the option to leave. It's not about appealing to all because we all know they could appeal to the most people likely to vote Labour (let alone their own members) with a remain stance. It's not about renegotiating a sensible option because we know that sensible option won't happen. It's about a stubborn arrogant old man and his stubborn arrogant advisors clinging on to a dream of being able to install a socialist agenda that in large part is neither suitable or applicable for modern Britain, when the popular and achievable parts of that agenda could still be done (and indeed would be possible at all, given the economic harm from brexit will make some impossible) while inside the EU.

But like everything related to Corbyn, there is no compromise. They would rather be out of office and able to complain than in office having got there by cooperating.

[Abernathy]

You've a knack for getting right to the heart of the matter, Crabby one, and by cracky you've nailed it dead right now.

Thanks, very, very much, for that clarity.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Surprising not utter disastrous poll for Labour.

That might yield enough Lab and SNP to form a government, with the Lib Dems abstaining.

[MisterMuncher]

+3 SDLP/Alliance/Sylvia Hermon?

[youngian]

Con/BXP on 42% is the lowest showing I’ve seen. Its been in the mid to late 40s in every other poll for months.

[Arrowhead]

When one considers the industrial grade bullshit served up by the Tories over the course of this past week, a poll such as the one below makes for uniquely depressing reading.

There seems to be a belief that the fluffing of the October 31st deadline will precipitate a collapse in public support for the Tories. Looking at these sort of numbers, I'm starting to wonder if the opposite might end up coming true instead.

[youngian]

The above poll is fairly consistent for the Con/BXP vote which is in the low 40s (once SNP/Plaid and NI votes are included). Still far too high but I can live with a third of electorate being cunts, cranks and dimwits. The Tories are resigned to losing southern marginals and will lose support moving to the right in order to make gains among ‘betrayed’ Labour voters in their heartland seats.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Labour will get lots of those Greens back and if Swinson sticks to her anti-Jez guns, they'll get some Lib Dems back too. I think Johnson is snookered on the Brexit extension, and don't see how he keeps the Brexit Party down to 14 in that scenario.