Topics about the Labour Party
:sunglasses: 73.5 % ❤ 1.5 % :thumbsup: 5.9 % :grinning: 11.8 % 🧥 1.5 % 😟 1.5 % :cry: 1.5 % :shit: 2.9 %
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#592054
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:12 pm
As far as we're concerned on here, I think the discussion of this difficult subject has been mostly good, on all sides.
This is true for many a discussion on here. People making measured points and taking on board the engagement of others whose opinions and perspectives we respect, allowing an issue to develop.

It might not be perfect but...
Tubby Isaacs liked this
#592059
I rather think you've just proved mine.
#592094
This from Anthony Julius is an interesting observation of Corbyn. I saw Corbyn as an old fashioned conservative Middle England guy at heart who might play well with pensioners in marginals. I had gardening in mind rather than Jew bashing but it wasn't a bad assessment of who he is.
But recall Corbyn’s disparagement of ‘Zionists who, having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives, they don’t understand English irony.’ My friend David Hirsh got it right: Corbyn was enjoying the old, sneery English view of Jews, and he was doing it to humiliate the Jews he was talking about. They live among us but they’re not really one of us.

“This wasn’t Corbyn’s usual political antisemitism. It was a spillover into ordinary old-fashioned English antisemitism. It was as if the political requirement to humiliate the ‘Zionists’ found its words in the antisemitic subconscious of an English middle-class man. This, from the ‘lifelong campaigner against antisemitism,’ as a Labour spokesperson described him.” https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Antisemi ... ian-609360
#592194
I think that nails it. In one sense, Corbyn is exactly like those sort of people who voted brexit because they have a nebulous dislike of foreign people but not specifically their Polish next-door neighbours who are lovely.

Corbyn will absolutely oppose antisemitism in the sense of denouncing neo-Nazi thugs. While simultaneously not being that bothered (and being very, very bad at disguising the fact he's not bothered) when Jewish people are the butt of jokes or get stick 'because Israel' etc.

Or to put it another way, if the victim isn't victimy enough for him, he doesn't 'get' it. People to be unquestioningly supported are poor, oppressed, bombed, living in squalour or have a very obvious 'difference' such as sexuality or skin tone. They're not comfortably off living in a 2-bed semi in Greater London and they look like him, regardless of whether someone has stuck a bit of paper through their letterbox saying they hope they get gassed or not. And when the latter group do get some support, it's usually with the caveat of also lumping in 'all forms of bigotry' (and for maximum points, a mention of Palestinians). Because the abuse they face doesn't reach the threshold for him unless a sweetener is tacked on.

Similarly, if it happens to be a socialist doing the oppressing or an enemy of the USA doing the bombing, he tends to be far more lenient on them.

And all this is bloody obvious. Yes, he gets a stupidly biased run in the press (that nonsense about the Queen's Speech in the Mail today, for example). But even if he didn't, this issue would still exist and he and his team are terrible at addressing it and he personally is terrible at empathy when it's with a group in one of his blind spots.

That's why for some he will always be unacceptable as a leader, and it's absolutely on Labour that this hasn't been recognised or dealt with in any meaningful way at all (for example, imagine the difference in voting if it had been announced Corbyn would lead for this election, deliver the second referendum if in govt. and then step down after the result so everything post-brexit one way or the other began with a clean slate).
#592203
The small silver lining is that it all largely backs up what many of us have thought - the issue is indifference and a lack of understanding at the top (with a dash of cronyism and conspiracy theory) rather than malice. The problem is the signal that that is clearly giving to people further down who are much more malignant in intent.
#592412


It reminds of our neighbours from a while back when the husband told the wife about the affair he had, it showed how much he cared about their marriage because he told her he was shagging her best mate.
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