Topics about the Labour Party
:sunglasses: 50 % ❤ 2.1 % :thumbsup: 4.2 % 😯 2.1 % :grinning: 22.9 % 🧥 2.1 % 😟 2.1 % :shit: 14.6 %
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#572982
I make fun of sugar because he shit posts on twitter and has awful political views entirely out of step with the left wing party which promoted him to lords. Not really the same as chakrabati is it?
#572992
Winegums wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:17 am
I make fun of sugar because he shit posts on twitter and has awful political views entirely out of step with the left wing party which promoted him to lords. Not really the same as chakrabati is it?
Literally the same? No, of course not. But you're not just taking the piss out of Sugar. You're deliberately framing his elevation to the Lords as a New Labour/centrist thing ("Has he ever actually espoused left-wing values or did he just buy his peerage from newlab?", "Given a seat in lords during the reign of Blair or Brown. Another fantastic relic of Labour centrism", "...I get that he obviously bought his way in, but it's sad that our party ever let that happen.").

In that sense it is the same - neither should arguably be there, and there are question marks over the specific reasons they got there, and the people who put them forward and why. I'm not excusing Sugar being made a lord, but poor judgement and mutual backscratching are by no means exclusive to the new labour era or centrists or whatever you want to frame it as.
#573011
Sugar’s elevation to the Lords was New Labour’s brand of populism at its worse. Sugar showed no aptitude for government or as a legislator. His businesses are insignificant but is a gobshite good at getting on the telly. I hope the Ukrainian comic can do better.
Boiler liked this
#573036
Yes, Amstrad was an awful computer company, and since then he's made most of his money through selling advertising space or the London property market. Not exactly difficult.

His business acumen amounts to little more than "buy cheap and go long". He's not Britain's best businessman, nor the most ruthless, or even the best known. He's the most available.
#573042
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:36 am
Winegums wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:17 am
I make fun of sugar because he shit posts on twitter and has awful political views entirely out of step with the left wing party which promoted him to lords. Not really the same as chakrabati is it?
Literally the same? No, of course not. But you're not just taking the piss out of Sugar. You're deliberately framing his elevation to the Lords as a New Labour/centrist thing ("Has he ever actually espoused left-wing values or did he just buy his peerage from newlab?", "Given a seat in lords during the reign of Blair or Brown. Another fantastic relic of Labour centrism", "...I get that he obviously bought his way in, but it's sad that our party ever let that happen.").

In that sense it is the same - neither should arguably be there, and there are question marks over the specific reasons they got there, and the people who put them forward and why. I'm not excusing Sugar being made a lord, but poor judgement and mutual backscratching are by no means exclusive to the new labour era or centrists or whatever you want to frame it as.
Chakrabati hasn't shown herself to be fundamentally opposed to the aims of the Labour party though..
#573043
Andy McDandy wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:42 pm
He's not Britain's best businessman, nor the most ruthless, or even the best known. He's the most available.
If not Digby Jones is available. But he's not a real business person but pretends to be one due to having a comms role at the CBI.
#573044
Boiler wrote:From memory, I thought Amstrad's biggest success was making Sky TV boxes? He sold that in 2007 to BSkyB.
Just happened to be flogging sattelite receivers and dishes when chairman of Spurs, whose vote was effectively the casting vote in the setting up of the English Premier League.
Along with Terry Venables, Sugar had recently acquired control of Spurs. He also had a deal to manufacture Sky’s satellite dishes. With Venables suddenly called from the meeting, Sugar held Spurs’ once solid ITV vote in his hands.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... e-was-born
During the meeting Dein attempted to get Sugar disqualified from casting his vote on grounds the Tottenham Hotspur chairman had vested interest, but was overruled. Dein also questioned BSkyB's debt, to which Quinton retorted "Are there any guarantees that we will get our money? Every company goes into debt." BSkyB eventually won the vote by 14 to 6, with two abstentions. Arsenal, Aston Villa, Everton, Leeds United, Liverpool and Manchester United voted in favour of ITV. Had Tottenham Hotspur also sided with ITV, the two-thirds majority would not have applied.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast ... ier_League
#573045
bluebellnutter wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:38 am
"I didn't think they'd take away MY family's Freedom of Movement!" says woman who wants to end Freedom of Movement

Quiet life Leaver Gloria then digs herself deeper by pointing out her parents arrived in the 60s before EU membership. So fuck the millions that have arrived since as this is all about Mr and Mrs De Piero.
#573052
That's a subjective analysis of what she's said. She hasn't out-and-out been racist in the same way that Sugar has out-and-out spouted "fuck you got mine" rhetoric.
#573063
Winegums wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:10 pm
Chakrabati hasn't shown herself to be fundamentally opposed to the aims of the Labour party though..
I dunno. Is blatantly selling out in exchange for a seat in the Lords a Labour aim? You tell me.

The point is this. You make your oh so clever posts about how shitty Blair was at this or how dreadful Straw is at that, and what a wanker Sugar is. And I agree - they're all shits. And Corbyn cosies up to dictators too, does fuck-all about bigots, can't pull a team together and has friends who have probably murdered people or at least told others to murder people. But that all passes you by, excused by stories of conspiracies and wilful turning the other way.

Would he be better in office than May? Sure. If it's a toss-up, would I take him? Sure? Is he squeaky clean and undeserving of the same criticism as Blair for some of the exact same reasons? FUCK no. Yeah, he hasn't started a war - and in his case, it'd probably be that he failed to stop one. But you know what? He hasn't been in office. Let's hope he doesn't ever have the opportunity to make such a catastrophic error - and I don't mean I hope he never gets into power, I mean literally that - I hope if he does, the situation never arises where he can screw up. Because I think he probably would because nothing he's ever done convinces me he's an intelligent, savvy leader able to make difficult choices under pressure.

You pick and choose and snark and whine, all the while ignoring that your favourites are just as awful only they suck up to different tyrants and whitewash different bastards. Why? Do you think you're winning something by pretending Corbyn really is some astonishing cleansing moral force in politics as opposed to a mediocre grumpy old man with a closet full of skeletons, a bag of tired ideas and a blinkered, narrow worldview? Is it some weird left-wing revenge thing for not being allowed to be the ones to disappoint for so long?

Do fucking better. Expect better. Because differently shit doesn't equal better, and slagging off what's gone before when we're all fully aware of how lousy some of them were doesn't in turn elevate mediocrity to something more either.
youngian, Boiler, Malcolm Armsteen and 3 others liked this
#573068


You want me to stop posting big mean posts about Blairite trash in the "MPs who are shits" thread?

Nobody's said that Corbyn was beyond reproach, he's probably made friends with some dodgy fuckers, but he's orders of magnitude cleaner than Blair and his cronies. It's not even a competition.
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