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Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:01 pm
by The Red Arrow
A little wary of charities absolving local and national government of responsibilities, but definitely a move in the right direction. Much depending on how willing Joe Public will be to actually get involved rather than sit at home moaning about everything, but given a fair hearing from our fair, free and cherished press,* I think there's a lot this can acheive.


*Look out for buzzwords/trigger phrases like 'Venezuela', 'Hard Left', 'Marxist', 'Communist' and 'Trampling over Thatcher's legacy'.

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:05 pm
by Malcolm Armsteen
Our (Lib Dem) council has given a small degree of local control through 'Local Committees' which have been given some funds - you may remember the new war memorial that I was involved with a while back. It isn't anything very close to what Steve Reed is planning, though he is aware of it, and has proved popular. The activists, however, tend not to be the usual suspects.

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:49 pm
by crabcakes_windermere
From the Guardian report on the PLP meeting:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -as-leader
In his speech before the interventions, the Labour leader said the party must unite to take on the “dangerously damaging policies” of the Tory leadership candidates, including tax cuts that will benefit the richest, attacks on abortion rights, and a “race-to-the-bottom no-deal Brexit”.

He said Labour was committed to working cross-party to stop no deal. “To break the Brexit deadlock, we need to go back to the people. Let the people decide the country’s future, either in a general election or through a public vote on any deal agreed by parliament,” he said.
Unite to take on dangerously damaging policies...except the most dangerous and damaging of them all, which he wants.

And then, even in that environment and even with allies telling him to buck the fuck up, he STILL couldn't resist, could he? A public vote is still second place to a GE he won't get, and it's still on "any deal agreed by parliament". Still caveated.

Milne will be pleased, of course. Everyone else, not so much.

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:09 pm
by Winegums
"Any form of brexit" isn't the most damaging policy. Stop acting like us entering the customs union would destroy the country.

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:16 pm
by Andy McDandy
We're already bloody in it. Reverse the farce and put the grown ups back in charge.

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:20 pm
by youngian
One MP leaving the committee room said it had been Corbyn’s “worst meeting in his time as leader” – including those that led to the vote of no confidence in him. “He did not even seem to acknowledge there were difficulties, from Brexit, to sexual harassment, to antisemitism.”

Perhaps Corbyn's had some kind of episode, shut down from reality and can only see Teletubbie land.

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:28 pm
by visage
Winegums wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:09 pm
"Any form of brexit" isn't the most damaging policy. Stop acting like us entering the customs union would destroy the country.
Brexit will cost working class jobs.
Brexit will widen inequality
Brexit will make poor people poorer
Brexit will make investment in public services more difficult.

Corbyn wants Brexit. He's unfit to want those things and remain as Labour leader.

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:13 pm
by crabcakes_windermere
Winegums wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:09 pm
"Any form of brexit" isn't the most damaging policy. Stop acting like us entering the customs union would destroy the country.
Of course it fucking is. It amplifies everything else. Inequality. Poverty. Bigotry. Erosion of rights. And then makes it much harder to reverse any of them because you have less to work with and more to do.

It is beyond idiotic to say you want to address society’s problems by first making everything significantly worse.

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:16 pm
by crabcakes_windermere
Also, “A” customs union. Not “the” customs union. That’s what he has proposed.

The choice of words is absolutely deliberate. A caveat for Corbyn and a bait and switch for his more easily led followers.

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:17 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
Winegums wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:09 pm
"Any form of brexit" isn't the most damaging policy. Stop acting like us entering the customs union would destroy the country.
Brexiters never mentioned it, not in the referendum, nor in the many years leading up to it. You're telling me now there's this option that does only marginal damage and keeps out Poles? Why isn't everybody stampeding to this painless way out of the shit?

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:27 pm
by bluebellnutter
Winegums wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:09 pm
Stop acting like us entering the customs union would destroy the country.
I asked you this question on another thread. As you must have missed it I'll ask it again here.

Can you explain, in detail, how a Customs Union with no Single Market access would work for the UK?

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:00 pm
by Winegums
Why do you think we'd have no single market access if we were in the CU?

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:40 pm
by crabcakes_windermere
Winegums wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:00 pm
Why do you think we'd have no single market access if we were in the CU?
Are you fucking kidding? You’re promoting Corbyn’s ‘solution’ as being great, and you don’t know what it is???!??!

He wants ‘a’ customs union outside the single market, because you don’t get to be in the single market and restrict freedom of movement.

‘Access’ to the single market is a red herring. EVERYONE has access to it. The benefits are from being IN it.

For christ’s sake, at least know what it is you’re pushing.

https://fullfact.org/europe/labour-cust ... le-market/

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:41 pm
by visage
Because its one of the four freedoms. If you want one you have to take all of them.

And given that Labour have ruled out freedom of movement, the EU wont let us have SM access.

Re: Labour, Generally.

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:47 pm
by bluebellnutter
Winegums wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:00 pm
Why do you think we'd have no single market access if we were in the CU?
Image