Topics about the Labour Party
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#428358
Dan wrote:You win "power" (that word Blairites seem to be in a tizzy about mainly due to the perks it brings) on principle, not on pathetically naval-gazing and attempting to appear ever-so-humble ("we're sorry about the crash, immigration, that you can't find your car keys this morning") to offend no-one and appeal to everyone. You drag the electorate with you, not the other way around.

Outside of their silly little PR meetings, the three have no idea just how unpopular the Labour Party are and Corbyn has energised it beyond belief and is the only one who stands even a moderate chance of winning.

UKIP, the Greens, the Tories, the SNP...all these parties benefited by actually believing in something and sticking to it. Labour (because Miliband, although a decent guy, was too nervous to go far enough) and the Lib Dems did not.

Added to this, they all talk of energising people who didn't vote or who were disillusioned with the system to get "engaged" with politics and now it's happened, all they have done is demean, patronise and bad-mouth them showing that like everything a Blairite says, it is nothing but lip-service designed to increase their own power.

A Blairite is even to a Tory for me but actually I prefer the Tories because at least they are honest about wanting an ultra capitalist society ruled by psychopath billionaires to kick the poor and needy.
I would suggest you go and read the Ashcroft piece in the Guardian from yesterday with an open mind, you need to realise that just because Blairites preach economic credibility it doesn't automatically make them the kind of enemy you think they are.
#428363
The further you go to the right, the further the Tories will go to the right. I don't think a Corbyn led Labour party will win in 2020, but I dont think one led by one of the other three would either.

What Corbyn may do, is get Scotland back on board and try and stall this relentless move to the far, extreme right which the Tories are pushing.

Many Labour supporters (me included) felt ignored by the Blairites and got sick of the spin and cosying up to capitalists, if he reconnects with the grass roots support he will achieve something.
#428366
Winegums wrote:Just as well they've stung Burnham just in time for Corbyn to probably win the leadership contest and tell them to fuck off.
Irony? It's not clear.
#428367
If by economic credibility you mean 'sat on their arses and let the Tories paint them into a corner', I'd prefer the alternative. The great thing about Corbyn is that if he puts forward an alternative strategy, it'll be ripped apart in the papers for sure, but they'll have to print it to rip it apart. And people will read it, and as the damage builds over the next 4 and a bit years, people will become more receptive to it. Just a few crucial votes in key seats won the Tories their majority in May - they'll be pissing a lot of those swing voters off in the coming years.

As for the upsurge in membership, well, that's been done to death over the past weeks. It's a good thing. The party has to reflect its membership.

All in all, regarding the party, the policies, the direction taken; I'd like to paraphrase Frank Costello from the film The Departed - "I don't want to be defined by some nebulous 'centre ground'. I want the centre ground to be defined by me."
#428368
mr angry manchester wrote:The further you go to the right, the further the Tories will go to the right.
Thereby making the Tories increasingly unpalatable for ordinary people and pushing them back toward Labour.
#428373
bluebellnutter wrote:
mr angry manchester wrote:The further you go to the right, the further the Tories will go to the right.
Thereby making the Tories increasingly unpalatable for ordinary people and pushing them back toward Labour.
Thatchcunt moved to the far right and the problem was, the ministry of information deluged the ordinary people with propaganda repeating endlessly how good she was for them so they voted for her.

How much influence does the mainstream media have any more? Murdoch's credibility is down the crapper, The Daily Heil simply feeds the prejudices of right wing twats who you are wasting your time on and the Express/Star are so shit that no one takes them seriously.

With social media etc, people can now by pass the outpourings of shit that is the press
#428378
Back in the eighties, Jasper Carrott, Ben Elton, pretty much every 'alternative' comedian and Spitting Image and the rest all ripped the piss out of Thatcher and the Sun every week. Didn't have much effect.

I fear that things may be changing, but the press still has significant power. The Sun and Mail still lead the daily sales, and newspaper consumption is prevalent among the people who do vote - the middle aged and older homeowners. Social media is young and dynamic and loud, but it's the HBO Game of Thrones to ITV's Downton Abbey. Which one gets the higher viewing figures and sells the most DVDs?

As for the falling credibility of papers, that's all well and good but people still buy them, and it's not just for the sports results and horoscopes. Breakfast TV and radio open with newspaper reviews. News channels take their cues from them. Pundits get invited onto things. Osmosis happens. If you're in a world of shit, and you know it's shit and you're surrounded by shit and you're doing your best to avoid stepping in and drowning in the shit, over time you will just get used to and accepting of the shit. It's why Littlejohn basically recycles the same crap twice a week. You see it over and over again until you start thinking "Is that still going on?" and wonder if Dicky might be onto something.

But yes, times are changing - or at least I'd hope so. Then again back in June I was on a train into Birmingham and was listening to the people across the aisle from me (twenties, seemingly bright and articulate) discussing how 'they' were 'now' banning kids from singing Baa Baa Black Sheep in schools. The longest and most gradual ban in history, I thought.
#428379
Littlejohn's brain wrote:"if the party wants to win it has to reflect the country it wishes to govern."
"if the party wants to win it has to reflect the country it wishes to govern.". Lol, that sounds like something Kendall would say. Do you think the Tories reflect the country? The country is more disjointed then ever. Out of the 45m eligible to vote, A quarter voted Tory, a fifth voted Labour, 1/3 didn't bother voting and the rest voting for other parties. All this talk of the Tories carrying the country is complete bollocks. The country didn't "lurch to the right" as these wanky pundits claim, but the Tories got in mainly due to the Lib Dem collapse and Labour not making enough gains marginals. Why Labour did badly we'll have to wait and see what the British Election Survey reports but at least Corbyn has reminded Labour that there is a huge swave of disenfranchised voters out there and perhaps the party can try and win them over instead of Mr and Mrs Mortgage in Nuneaton. Oh, and there's the situation in Scotland to try and rectify as well.
#428388
Politicians thrive on fear, it helps preserve the status quo, that's why the political elite bubble doesnt like it when someone like Corbyn comes along, offering hope of a society where the poor and vulnerable arent exploited by billionaire psychopaths.

Could this be the start of a slow change? the centre ground (actually right ish) was a feature of the 1990s which were a kind of gap between the end of the cold war and 9/11, now the world has become more dangerous, could we be getting polarised again? Corbyn on the one side, Farage on the other. Like in the States with Bernie Sanders energising support and that silly twat Trump on the other extreme?
#428390
The biggest danger will be the "At least you know where you are with the Tories" option. To be fair, it was applicable to Labour too, between 2001 and 2007. Even if your life wasn't that great, you knew that it wouldn't suck as much as it would under Hague or Howard. If anger at service cuts and wage stagnation fails to materialise, instead manifesting as a grim acceptance, then we truly are finished.
#428392
Andy McDandy wrote:The biggest danger will be the "At least you know where you are with the Tories" option. To be fair, it was applicable to Labour too, between 2001 and 2007. Even if your life wasn't that great, you knew that it wouldn't suck as much as it would under Hague or Howard. If anger at service cuts and wage stagnation fails to materialise, instead manifesting as a grim acceptance, then we truly are finished.
Think weve had grim acceptance of shit before, Andy, in the 1930s. We probably would have been finished then, but for World War 2
#428397
Andy McDandy wrote:Back in the eighties, Jasper Carrott, Ben Elton, pretty much every 'alternative' comedian and Spitting Image and the rest all ripped the piss out of Thatcher and the Sun every week. Didn't have much effect.

I fear that things may be changing, but the press still has significant power. The Sun and Mail still lead the daily sales, and newspaper consumption is prevalent among the people who do vote - the middle aged and older homeowners. Social media is young and dynamic and loud, but it's the HBO Game of Thrones to ITV's Downton Abbey. Which one gets the higher viewing figures and sells the most DVDs?

As for the falling credibility of papers, that's all well and good but people still buy them, and it's not just for the sports results and horoscopes. Breakfast TV and radio open with newspaper reviews. News channels take their cues from them. Pundits get invited onto things. Osmosis happens. If you're in a world of shit, and you know it's shit and you're surrounded by shit and you're doing your best to avoid stepping in and drowning in the shit, over time you will just get used to and accepting of the shit. It's why Littlejohn basically recycles the same crap twice a week. You see it over and over again until you start thinking "Is that still going on?" and wonder if Dicky might be onto something.

But yes, times are changing - or at least I'd hope so. Then again back in June I was on a train into Birmingham and was listening to the people across the aisle from me (twenties, seemingly bright and articulate) discussing how 'they' were 'now' banning kids from singing Baa Baa Black Sheep in schools. The longest and most gradual ban in history, I thought.

I watch the newspaper review on The Wright Stuff and quite often the reviewer will snort when they come to a Daily Mail story and sarcastically say, 'Daily Mail? Yeah, that's my favourite paper' and reinforces this with a gee-whizz-I'm-just-kidding look to the camera.

A few days ago a reviewer made a similar comment and Wright said, 'Well, if it wasn't for The Mail and the stories they run we'd have to shorten the show by a fifth'.

When I hear comments like this about the way the media feeds on itself reminds me of the Ouroboros .
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