Topics about the Labour Party
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By Kreuzberger
Membership Days Posts
#568168
youngian wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:47 am
Egging politicians was once funny but not anymore. Especially outside the mosque a nutcase rammed his car into threatening to kill Corbyn.
Exactly. Context is everything. Jo Cox's name is rightly the first that comes to mind but other right-wing terrorists are presently sitting in jail on charges of trying to do the same.

Add to this, groups from the DFLA to the yellow vesters are running around the streets with little intervention from the police. On Saturday, more images were surfacing of them waving placards threatening civil war if they don't get their way.

On the one hand, it is risible that any number of these fat, shouty, old men could pose any systemic risk but, left unchecked, someone's going to wind up dead.
youngian, Zuriblue, Timbo liked this
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Posts
#568170
This is why Owen Jones's response bothers me so much. Yes, Griffin is an absolute arse. But he was also a laughing stock and dead in the water. He was defeated because his ideas were rubbish and he was rubbish.

Saying that's OK because he's a Nazi just normalises physical action against people you don't like. And there are a LOT of right-wing arseholes who'd love running street battles. And, to be fair, a lot of left-wing ones too. But incidents like Jo Cox are the outcome - people trying to get on and do a good job and help others killed because someone has been radicalised by the language of traitor and patriot and the like. Or on the left, language like 'traitor', 'scab' and so on.

You normalise it, you escalate it. An egg now is a fist next week and a brick the week after that. I'm relieved Corbyn wasn't harmed and it was just an egg and not a fist. But it shouldn't happen to any politician - even a shitty has-been pound shop Moseley - because their supporters will want to go one further next time.
 
By Boiler
Posts
#568204
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:56 am
Rachel Riley was pointing out the hypocrisy that Owen Jones thinks it’s fine if others throw eggs at people he doesn’t like (the original tweet was related to someone egging Nick Griffin), but predictably is making out Corbyn being egged is an unprecedented assault on democracy.
Fenton.
 
By davidjay
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#568208
Fenton really is a fucking clown. Nobody capable of rational thought would think of Corbyn as being cut from the same cloth as Nick Griffin, but there are plenty of people on the extremes who think differently, or regard Griffin as a true patriot and Corbyn as an anti-British traitorous apologist for terrorism. If according to Fenton it's fine to attack one then according to Joe Bloke who thinks Tommy Robinson speaks the truth and the MSM is a Zionist conspiracy it's his duty to attack the other, and as enough people on here have pointed out, the far right are now using a lot more than eggs. That's what Rachel Riley means, and that's what fuckwits living in the Cult's bubble are incapable of understanding.
oboogie liked this
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#568216
I'm very close to giving up on Fenton. His blog used to be quite fun and indeed enlightening. Nowadays it's just puerile insult trading, and playing to his gallery of stunningly unpleasant cheerleaders.
 
By Winegums
Membership Days Posts
#568218
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:57 am
This is why Owen Jones's response bothers me so much. Yes, Griffin is an absolute arse. But he was also a laughing stock and dead in the water. He was defeated because his ideas were rubbish and he was rubbish.

Saying that's OK because he's a Nazi just normalises physical action against people you don't like. And there are a LOT of right-wing arseholes who'd love running street battles. And, to be fair, a lot of left-wing ones too. But incidents like Jo Cox are the outcome - people trying to get on and do a good job and help others killed because someone has been radicalised by the language of traitor and patriot and the like. Or on the left, language like 'traitor', 'scab' and so on.

You normalise it, you escalate it. An egg now is a fist next week and a brick the week after that. I'm relieved Corbyn wasn't harmed and it was just an egg and not a fist. But it shouldn't happen to any politician - even a shitty has-been pound shop Moseley - because their supporters will want to go one further next time.
The far right didn't get defeated because of rubbish ideas. They have largely been on the ascent and it really boils my piss to see people act like Nick Griffin getting roasted on Question Time was the death of fascism.

We voted to leave Europe mainly due to fears about immigrants. There were white nationalist rallies in Charlottesville ("the Jew will not replace us"). Half of Tory voters think there are no-go areas of London controlled by Muslims. The Dail Mail continues to be the Daily Mail.

Fascists only die when they're ignored or punched. The more you think you can beat them in the marketplace of ideas, the more you rationalise and normalise their position. That's why right-wingers are so angry about being "silenced" in university campuses or debates, or being no-platformed. That's why they get so defensive of "free speech". They want to be seen and heard. Even if most people ignore them, some will nod and say "hm, maybe it is the Muslims who are to blame for my economic plight".

So actually, everyone who is able to should punch Nazis. People shouldn't punch left-wing politicians.
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Posts
#568220
Winegums wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:19 pm
Fascists only die when they're ignored or punched.
This is what happened to Griffin, because he was shown to be a useless idiot. He was ignored into oblivion. Punching him, or egging him, or his regeneration in the form of Yaxley-Lennon, does nothing other than whip up their supporters and get them out for revenge. We're not at war. It doesn't intimidate or scare them because not everyone does it all the time.

For example, Richard Spencer being punched at Trump's inauguration was hilarious. Then some fucking riled-up imbecile runs Heather Heyer over a few months later and kills her. Was that worth it for a few "ha ha, Nazi got punched!" memes?

So unless you are willing to trade Corbyn or someone else getting a brick to the face or worse for your right to chortle away at someone like Rees-Mogg getting egged, let's just agree that option 1 is the better.
 
By Winegums
Membership Days Posts
#568222
Nazis aren't well known for being "eye for an eye" types, they'll engage in violence regarded of what is done to them. The only way of stopping that from happening is no-platforming them at all times, then hitting them if they do start to get a voice so they don't organise and get bolshy.
 
By Cyclist
Membership Days Posts
#568231
So we learn from history generations have to fight
And those who crave for mastery must be faced down on sight
If that means by words, by fists, by stones or by the gun
Remember those who stood up for their daughters and their sons

I read the last few posts* on this thread and thought of The Men They Couldn't Hang


*Even Winegums' - they seem to be a bit more grown up than when I last read any!
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Posts
#568236
Ted Heath got egged when he came back from EC negotiations, by somebody unhappy about the redevelopment of Covent Garden.

It's not a particularly forced reading of Riley's tweet to think she's comparing Corbyn to a Nazi. And she's got some very unpleasant allies on Twitter, who she just sees as anti-Semitism campaigners, when they're also Likud apologists. So I can see the Jez fans' point. But Christ, hasn't somebody told the people in the leader's office to keep out of it? Laura Murray didn't need to be steaming in and now has Mark Lewis on her case for libel. And a load of "Jez aide sued by Countdown host" headlines.

Jez himself has the sense to keep his distance.
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#568332
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:20 pm
Laura Murray didn't need to be steaming in and now has Mark Lewis on her case for libel. And a load of "Jez aide sued by Countdown host" headlines.

Jez himself has the sense to keep his distance.

The captain can't distance himself from the crew he appoints. A good day to bury bad disunity news and they still cock it up. Its like they immature with age, as Harold Wilson once observed.
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