Winegums wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:11 pm
Addressing wealth inequality, poverty, cost of living etc are exactly how you deal with the issues facing this country and they're exactly the problems that have gotten us to where we are. Even if it's wrong it is at least a fucking viewpoint. The gall of centrists complaining about clock winding when all the collective wit of the FBPEs can come up with is "let's go back to around 2012 when the london Olympics happened and everything was rosy"
These are just vague if worthy ideals (but notably in no way exclusive to Corbyn or his fans), not actual solutions. Please explain:
1. what he would do to address the issues listed
2. how these measures would be realistically funded in a post-brexit severely reduced (likely in recession) economy - particularly relevant given Corbyn's plans for renationalisations
3. why any of these are not possible within the EU, given a starting point of a stable economy and trading network would clearly be a huge boon to domestic reform
You have no idea how to deal with the issues that caused the referendum, because you fundamentally refuse to believe they exist. People only voted wrong because of foreign funding and lies. So we just make people know they voted wrong and then they'll vote right.
The first sentence is completely untrue - I and others have a great deal of idea why the referendum came about and it's again sheer bloody arrogance on the part of lexiters to think they've got a monopoly on 'the real truth', as if we're all sitting around like Jonathan fucking Pie caricatures going "oh why did the poor people vote so stupidly?". Decades of lies from right-wing press and governments (left and right) using Europe as a convenient bogeyman while giving zero coverage of the positives. Increasing inequality and poverty, reduced services etc. It's all well known.
However the second sentence I have issues with. People DID only vote based on lies in many cases - believing the NHS would be safe on leaving rather than the biggest target to be carved up being the most obvious. Exposing the corruption and making the case that the inequalities in services stem largely from domestic government choices (and largely Tory ones) on the one hand, and on the other doing work to show where the EU has stepped in and filled the gaps the Tories have created on the other, would be an excellent answer to this.
1. Given he has no time for the Tories and wants to address inequality, why did Corbyn not do this, instead focusing on dry trade laws or lukewarm praise during the remain campaign?
2. Why is he so quiet on the corruption now? Surely NOT pointing out how flawed the campaign was and how the Leave vote was won by underhand means is simply handing the Tories a free pass for no reason?
3. If fighting inequality is a key goal, why is Corbyn pursuing a course of action that will increase and prolong it dramatically rather than fighting tooth and nail to convince the public that we should stay?
Say Corbyn comes out as hard remain, then the Tories push through brexit before a GE, how does Corbyn win control given he's said quite clearly he doesn't want to brexit? How does any remain party get control when they've said they don't want to do it?
It's a moot point because Corbyn will not win control under any scenario where he supports brexit.
1. If it's an early post-brexit GE, he's not going to get control by saying he does want brexit now because the people who want brexit and who voted leave don't want him to be in charge now or then or ever. Being out of the EU is phase 1. Phase 2 is the dismantling of what they call red tape but what we call rights and protections. That needs a Tory (or a Tory-like) govt.
Leavers don't want HIS brexit and never will, but by continuing to promise he will deliver it to people who are utterly disinterested in his offer he pushes more and more people who would vote Labour away. If there is brexit and then a GE and Corbyn has stuck to his guns and said all along he would deliver brexit as well, the support Labour has lost is not coming back because the majority of it wasn't Leave support who will then go "Oh well, that's done now - now I'm interested in righting society's wrongs again". Remain or even soft brexit support is not going to return to Labour while Corbyn actively pretends they don't exist. They'll do exactly what you have been telling them to do and fuck off to the Lib Dems or the Greens.
2. If it's a late post-brexit GE, when things have gone tits up, he won't win a vote on the grounds he supported brexit and it's completely fucked everything. Plus leavers will still be pushing on with phase 2 so won't suddenly swap party. A remain party here could easily capitalise on the justified anger of those voters who still believed that brexit would be for the best. Someone who supported it as leader would be a dead weight to any such party.
3. If it's a pre-brexit GE, he won't win that if he stays committed to brexit because leavers will want a right-wing brexit run by a right-wing party and remainers will still be trying to stop it from happening.
Labour is not entitled to the non-Tory vote, but seems to have completely forgotten this. Again, his ONE plausible route to No. 10 is to support remain, campaign hard for the reasons why this is the best route to address the inequalities and issues in our country, and be willing to compromise and work with other parties.
He is dead in the water every other way by not being brexity enough for one side, far too brexity for the other, and hamstrung by having no plausible way to make good on any other policies other than to rack up vast amounts of borrowing*.
*OR, do something properly batshit like enforced renationalisation at no reimbursement, mass compulsory reposession of rental homes for reuse as social housing, vastly expanded taxation, defaulting on NHS contracts and so on.