Topics about the Labour Party
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By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#578351
Safe_Timber_Man wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:41 am
Jeremy Corbyn 'will TODAY back move for Labour to change Brexit policy and support a second referendum'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... olicy.html



Reckon he actually will? I'll believe it when I see it.

if this transpires I can only assume Winegums is going to fiercely oppose Corbyn on this after arguing for so long that we shouldn't have a 2nd Ref.
"Well yes we will back a second referendum...but only if it's proved not to be possible to get a General Election, a TV debate, a vote of No Confidence, another Parliamentary vote and a flight on a pig around the lost city of Atlantis. Once we've done all those things then we'll consider backing a second referendum."
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#578352
A referendum is a risk, for sure, what isn't? But it isn't "Hard Remain". I don't think anybody's suggesting we join the Euro and Schengen, are they?

Doubt he does it today, but he can't be far off a couple of high profile resignations.
lord_kobel, oboogie, Oblomov liked this
 
By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#578354
lord_kobel wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:32 am
Winegums wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:15 am
I've disagreed with Corbyn on plenty,
When?
Corbyn had muesli for breakfast the other day. Winegums thought he should have bran flakes.
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#578356
I assume 'hard remain' is the term that the Corbyn fans have chosen to try and make it sound as unappealing as/associate it as an equally bad polar opposite of hard brexit. When of course there's no such thing as 'hard remain' - you either remain or you don't. Soft brexit is still brexit, and still significantly worse than remain. Hard brexit is significantly worse than that. Corbyn's position is the least worst of the two options that make us worse off, but it's still terrible because it still makes us worse off.

Hence, 'hard remain'. Because otherwise you have to admit you're fighting for something worse to appease a eurosceptic old man allegedly in the name of respecting a corrupt, narrow vote and 'change', rather than something considerably better that secures the future of this country and allows for real, beneficial change to take place because we won't be bankrupt and won't have empowered a load of bigots.
lord_kobel, Safe_Timber_Man, oboogie and 1 others liked this
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#578364
It's a get out clause. Back to the people, we'll support whatever they want.

Although a second referendum presupposes a remain stance.
 
By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#578369
Really Corbyn not backing Remain (sorry..."Hard Remain") just shows a complete lack of political judgement on his part. Think about it, he is going along with Brexit, the only way he "wins" that argument is if Brexit happens and is a complete success. If it does, HE is not getting even an iota of the credit for it and will be crushed in an election. The only way he (and Labour) stand to gain is in either of these scenarios;

1. Brexit happens and goes horribly wrong
2. Brexit doesn't happen

In which case he can either say "see, told you so" or "we forced the Government to come to our position, look at this Government in waiting". He's not just backing the wrong horse, he's put all his money on the horse he's arranged to have shot.
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#578371
I think this would be a tenable position and as near as makes no difference to backing Remain. Quite clever towards Flint and co too. You want to leave? Back leave in the referendum, entirely your call. Tell your constituents why you think that is a good idea.
Arrowhead liked this
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#578372
I can see why he would do it - it still gives him his precious caveat. But as BBN has said, it's pointless.

1. The Tories/Farage have leave votes sewn up.
2. That survey shows the only thing Tory voters want less than brexit up to and including the destruction of the whole of the UK and their own party, is Corbyn as PM
3. Labour members overwhelmingly want to remain
4. The vast majority of Labour voters want to remain (Labour was losing votes to remain parties at a factor of 2 to 1 AT LEAST)
5. the myth that most Labour voters are working class leavers has been debunked

Anyone savvy enough to know what a shitshow brexit is is also savvy enough to know there'll be nothing left in the pot to do anything good with if it happens, so even if Corbyn got 99% of the vote in a post-brexit GE it means nothing - he just gets to take the blame for austerity 2.0, tinker round the edges a bit and hold off the Tory tax cut-a-thon that they'll impose when they resume power after promoting the narrative Labour messed up brexit britain.

There's nothing to gain and no opportunity at all from any scenario other than fighting for and winning a remain vote. Everything else is salvage at best and outright disaster at worst. Doesn't matter if you don't give two shits about brexit and only want a Labour govt. in to perform radical reform of society - they won't be able to do jack shit with a bottomed-out economy and will take it in the neck for queues at dover, food and medicine shortages and so on.
 
By Arrowhead
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#578373
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:49 pm
I think this would be a tenable position and as near as makes no difference to backing Remain. Quite clever towards Flint and co too. You want to leave? Back leave in the referendum, entirely your call. Tell your constituents why you think that is a good idea.
I agree. It’s probably the best Labour can manage right now without seriously splitting the party, or at the very least suffering some damagingly high profile resignations from the shadow cabinet. It allows the Mann’s and Flint’s of the world to ride their Leave unicorns whilst keeping a red rosette proudly on display. For the rest of us, at long fucking last, it would finally present us with a discernible route out of this utter fiasco.
Tubby Isaacs liked this
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