Topics about the Labour Party
:sunglasses: 63.6 % ❤ 1.5 % :thumbsup: 4.4 % 😯 0.7 % :grinning: 20.7 % 🧥 1.5 % 🙏 2.2 % 😟 1.8 % :cry: 2.2 % :shit: 1.5 %
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By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Posts
#580293
He <McDonnell> dismissed reports of a rift at the top of the party and said he had not called for Corbyn’s closest aides to be sacked. He told the Marr show: “I have confidence in them, of course I do. I have not told anyone to be sacked or anything like that, this is all myth. But let’s make it clear, Jeremy and I talk about policies on a daily basis. Yes we will disagree on things but we will then come to an agreement.”
Not even "full confidence". He may as well have said "Don't you think he looks tired?" and be done with it.
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By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#580295
Four years after Labour Party members made the decision to install Jeremy Corbyn as their leader, they can no longer deny the evidence of their catastrophic foolishness.

As Winegums demonstrates there will be no end to denial. If Labour scored 10% in a GE then 3 million votes for real socialism would be seen as a successful solid foundation to build the future victory on. Enemies and traitors will be found to blame for the defeat and Corbyn will be re-elected leader overwhelmingly by members if challenged.
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By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#580300
"3 million voted for real Socialism and 3 million were unemployed under Margaret Thatcher. Coincidence? I think NOT. #JC4PM"
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By Winegums
Membership Days Posts
#580331
youngian wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:24 am
Four years after Labour Party members made the decision to install Jeremy Corbyn as their leader, they can no longer deny the evidence of their catastrophic foolishness.

As Winegums demonstrates there will be no end to denial. If Labour scored 10% in a GE then 3 million votes for real socialism would be seen as a successful solid foundation to build the future victory on. Enemies and traitors will be found to blame for the defeat and Corbyn will be re-elected leader overwhelmingly by members if challenged.
But Labour are top of almost every poll except I think Survation, so this isn't really where we're at?
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Posts
#580336
YouGov: 4th place
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... -4th-place

Unless that’s the one you mean?

Regardless, the trends are all downwards, many show a matter of a few percent between Labour and the Tories and the LDs, and none show anything approaching a Labour majority. And this is before factoring in the latest Williamson farce, Panorama on Wednesday, and Christ knows what by Friday.

If Labour as they are can’t lay a glove on the Tories while they’re complete shit AND leaderless, hardly bodes well does it?
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By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#580339
Here's the thing, though. When Corbyn made it onto the ballot paper for the leadership in 2015, and subsequently easily won against very lack-lustre campaigns from Cooper, Burnham, and Kendall, I wasn't one of those who were instantly alarmed and appalled.

I didn't vote for him (Yvette got my vote), but I very much took the view that I'd give Corbyn a fair chance at leading Labour back to government, summed up as "well, he certainly talks a good game, let's see if he can deliver". Had he been able to deliver, I'd have been delighted.

But it quickly became apparent, at any rate to non-cultists, that Corbyn had not the first idea of how to lead the party anywhere, let alone back into government. Conflicts arose between agreed party policy and Corbyn's personal views, such as on Trident renewal. Corbyn made plain his conviction that if it came to it as PM, he would never authorise the use of weapons such as Trident. He suggested he would like to see the UK withdraw from Nato. And of course, his endless baggage around Palestinian rights, Irish Republicanism, and of course anti-semitism proved not only to provide rich pickings for what The Cult calls "the MSM", but also a tangible handicap on Labour's electability.

His personal ratings as the UK's next PM went through the floor and have stayed there ever since.

Unsurprisingly, I voted for Owen Smith in the 2016 leadership contest, after a controversial NEC ruling on the interpretation of party rules around leadership elections relieved Corbyn of the requirement to seek the required number of PLP nominations to stand in a leadership contest, a requirement he would not have achieved, on the grounds that he was the incumbent.

He was voted back in, of course, by several thousand starry-eyed idealists and a couple of thousand grizzled former SWP types who had flooded back into the party's membership since 2015, who both viewed the audacity of Smith's challenge as an existential threat to the one true belief of the purest socialism, and to be seen off by mobilising scores of adoring fans at rallies.

After this, and after Corbyn's mostly passive undermining of the party's Yes campaign for the EU referendum, again because of Corbyn's personal convictions being allowed to bleed into agreed party policy, Corbyn had for me, and many others, definitively lost the benefit of the doubt.

Here was a man who could never lead the party back to government because he simply lacked the capability to lead. Moreover, here was a man who represented a living, breathing insurmountable obstacle to Labour's electoral success.

The unexpectedly not that bad result achieved in the 2017 snap election (which still represents a third successive general election defeat for Labour) was partly attributable to people lending Labour their votes in order to frustrate May's stated objective of an increased majority with which to see Brexit through, and partly to the most disastrously inept Tory campaign in living memory, effectively provided Corbyn's leadership with a stay of execution. But it was apparent to anyone with a simulacrum of sense that the project was doomed. Corbyn's leadership has failed, and seems irredeemable.

It's now only a matter of time before the 72 year old Corbyn falls by the wayside, or is made to see sense by following the example of his fellow septuagenarian Vince Cable in bowing out with at least a modicum of respect. People in the party are already beginning to talk of who can, if anyone can, sustain the Corbyn project but with a new ingredient - the ability to win.
Last edited by Abernathy on Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#580348
Winegums wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:24 pm
But Labour are top of almost every poll except I think Survation, so this isn't really where we're at?
Here are the most recent polls by pollster according to Britain Elects;









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By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#580386
visage wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:02 pm
Indeed. And you know that Farage will stand down in any constituency with a confirmed brexiteer.

And what Tory MP wouldnt take the pledge if he know it will give him an extra 20%?

So the Tories will romp home.
Not quite as Leave voters are highly concentrated in safe Tory seats. Farage pursued this strategy in 2017 and it didn’t have a lot of impact even in Leave marginals like Peterborough. I think Johnson even with Farage’s patronage will have the opposite effect as moderate Tories are more scattered about in marginal seats.
 
By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#580403
It's the same dilemma Labour has under Corbyn, they might pile up votes of true believers but they tend to already be concentrated in safe seats, you need to reach out to the people outside your immediate club to make headway.
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#580411
bluebellnutter wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:27 am
It's the same dilemma Labour has under Corbyn, they might pile up votes of true believers but they tend to already be concentrated in safe seats
Also Labour Leave voters are scattered in Northern and Midlands marginals so it is a legitimate concern that Labour may have to lose some seats to gain others.
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Posts
#580413
Yeah, I think a few MPs are within their rights to worry about that. But why somebody like Emma Lewell Buck (majority 14,500) has been sticking with Brexit, God knows.

There's been a US-style swapping of white socially conservative voters, particularly since 2010, I think. Labour will be haunted by Chuck Schumer's famous miscalculation that the Democrats were picking up enough suburban voters to offset the loss of these "heartland" voters. Schumer was actually right about the number of votes- they did get a lot of suburban voters- but these were wasted under the electoral college, see Texas for example. That can't happen here.
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