Topics about the Labour Party
:sunglasses: 59.2 % ❤ 1.6 % :thumbsup: 6.3 % 😯 2.5 % :grinning: 22.5 % 🧥 0.9 % 🙏 2.7 % 😟 1.1 % :cry: 2.3 % :shit: 0.9 %
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By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#591647
Went out canvassing on Sunday and heard some of my fellow canvassers mock a Labour voter who complained we'd been taken over by Momentum. I turned to them and said you went be fucking laughing when you wake up on the 13th and discover we've lost the seat.

More Corbynite brilliance.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahalothman ... inal-seats
An activist in another Labour-held marginal seat, which many locally fear losing, said that not only have they not had any offers of help from volunteers, but that members of the local party have been campaigning elsewhere in Conservative-held seats instead.

One campaign manager, who is trying to retain another North West seat with a small Labour majority voiced similar frustrations, telling BuzzFeed News: “I’m running a campaign in a battleground marginal the party must hold on to which YouGov shows as a toss up and we’re lucky to have 20 people across a weekend.

"Meanwhile in seats we are never going to win like Altrincham I see 200 people out. It’s incredibly frustrating and disheartening. There’s no thought to where people are needed and no support for seats we need to hold which at present we won’t.”

Nationally, Labour – often with the help of Momentum – has also been sending armies of volunteers into seats like Chingford and Uxbridge in a bid to take out big Conservative names like Iain Duncan-Smith, and the prime minister.

The picture that activists in the North West describe has also been replicated in other parts of the country, where some activists say Labour and Momentum are not making judgements based on which seats are the most important electorally.

"In London it has been really obvious that seats are prioritised not by how winnable they are but by the candidate," one activist told BuzzFeed News. "Ali Milani in Uxbridge and Faiza Shaheen in Chingford are the favourites of the Corbynites.
Fucking typical canvassing for their own and throwing the rest of under a bus.
Boiler liked this
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#591648
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:24 pm
AAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!! YOU ABSOLUTE FUCKING, IDEOLOGICALLY BLINKERED, DUMB AS ALL FUCK IMBECILES!!!

That's it. We're done. A couple of weeks of the Tories capitalising on mixed messaging by Jez, Len and Seumas because they couldn't fucking resist, even now, and the LDs picking up a load of votes because fucking hell why wouldn't they, and Labour can enjoy being oh so very pure but electorally irrelevant for the next 5 years while everything goes to shit.

Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. Snatching a whopping defeat from the jaws of a potential better than expected 2nd place.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-201 ... TemtTtXRMk
YouGov put Don't Knows as high as 26% while other polls placed them in the late teens. If these are the seats where the DKs are than it makes sense to blitz them with visits. Let's hope they're not sending out Lavery and Skinner to bore everyone about national planned economies.
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#591650
The thing is, I just can't see how anyone who wants to leave will vote Labour, even with a blitz:
1. they won't win the election outright
2. if they manage to form a minority govt., they will be pushing leave further away because of pressure to hold a 2nd referendum by any and all other parties they need to function
3. in a 2nd referendum it looks like remain would win.

So it comes down to what do those voters really want - a version of what they want, or the complete opposite. And if someone is *still* a leave voter who thinks we'll be better off and is likely to not like Corbyn anyway, what possible appeal is there? They're already deluded enough to ignore the damage being done before we've even left, so it's not a big jump to think Boris will get the job done and then convince yourself you can vote him out in a bit for a Labour govt. in a country already out of the EU. Something like e.g. the NHS may connect, so why aren't they pushing THAT? Don't push that what the person wants being set back, possibly to be taken away entirely, fronted by a man they don't like and don't trust who has openly said "I won't campaign for what you want".

And that's the problem. Like their focus on Corbynista candidates, with this Labour are not pushing what's best or what even works. They're pushing what they (a small group at the top) want, and have probably wanted to campaign for all along.
oboogie liked this
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#591658
I don't know how they go about that. It's not like there's a shedload of Liberal Democrats in those constituencies.

Maybe they offer more free stuff, paid for by those bastards in London, or something. Actually maybe Burgon and Lavery will turn up and say "Tories" a lot.
Last edited by Tubby Isaacs on Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#591660
Nationally, Labour – often with the help of Momentum – has also been sending armies of volunteers into seats like Chingford and Uxbridge in a bid to take out big Conservative names like Iain Duncan-Smith, and the prime minister.
This reminds me of the Lib Dem "decapitation" strategy from 2005. That didn't work. They'd already got what they could from that type of seat. And it wasn't like losing Oliver Letwin or David Davis would have been a mortal blow anyway.
 
By Bones McCoy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#591661
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:08 pm
Nationally, Labour – often with the help of Momentum – has also been sending armies of volunteers into seats like Chingford and Uxbridge in a bid to take out big Conservative names like Iain Duncan-Smith, and the prime minister.
This reminds me of the Lib Dem "decapitation" strategy from 2005. That didn't work. They'd already got what they could from that type of seat. And it wasn't like losing Oliver Letwin or David Davis would have been a mortal blow anyway.
Imagine 2019 without Oliver Letwin.
Tubby Isaacs liked this
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#591662
And that's the problem. Like their focus on Corbynista candidates, with this Labour are not pushing what's best or what even works. They're pushing what they (a small group at the top) want, and have probably wanted to campaign for all along.
I've wondered whether the manifesto, with all its spectacular commitments, is a serious programme to be enacted in one Parliament, or whether the point of it is to bring about a permanent shift in the party. Imagine having to roll that back after a defeat.

Or indeed put it into action if you win.
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#591677
The Weeping Angel wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:26 pm

Here's a list of people and groups who will blamed should Labour lose by a large amount.

1. Zionists
2. The media
3. The Lib Dems
4. Andrew Neil
5. The BBC
6. Rachel Riley
7. Tracy Ann-Oberman

Here's what (should) be blamed

1. Corbyn
2. The manifesto
You forgot "centrist melts". See "If you'd just got behind Jeremy and fought the Tories....."
 
By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#591678
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:23 pm
And that's the problem. Like their focus on Corbynista candidates, with this Labour are not pushing what's best or what even works. They're pushing what they (a small group at the top) want, and have probably wanted to campaign for all along.
I've wondered whether the manifesto, with all its spectacular commitments, is a serious programme to be enacted in one Parliament, or whether the point of it is to bring about a permanent shift in the party. Imagine having to roll that back after a defeat.

Or indeed put it into action if you win.
That's a thought that's occured to me as well.
 
By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#591679
Abernathy wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:33 pm
The Weeping Angel wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:26 pm

Here's a list of people and groups who will blamed should Labour lose by a large amount.

1. Zionists
2. The media
3. The Lib Dems
4. Andrew Neil
5. The BBC
6. Rachel Riley
7. Tracy Ann-Oberman

Here's what (should) be blamed

1. Corbyn
2. The manifesto
You forgot "centrist melts". See "If you'd just got behind Jeremy and fought the Tories....."
Oh how could I forget the Centrist melts.
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#591687


I don't think the point was that you didn't campaign in lots of places, Owen. And I don't think he was talking just about you personally. The point was that you and others like you have put disproportionate effort into places that you won't win.

But the tone is a bit snarky, you're within your rights to take exception.
 
By spoonman
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#591688
I've said it before and I think it's worth mentioning it again...

Under Jeremy Corbyn, Labour have largely turned themselves from being a party of governance into a party of protest. I wouldn't fundamentally blame Corbyn though, it's entryism by Momentum that has swung the party into such a position.

As a party of protest, a reasonable sense of pragmatism is heresy. Realpolitik is for the "centrist melts", and the attitude of "if you're not with us, you're against us" perminates.

Couple that alongside the likes of the Guardian report mentioned above by TWA - it's not just the case of wanting to campaign only for candidates within a particular wing of a major political party, but also wanting a sense of martyrdom - piling into campaigning in seats where Labour has no realistic chance of winning against a Tory incumbent but where a Momentum "approved" candidate is standing allows them to speak of their purity without realistic consequences for them or reflection of their thought or conscience which they might be subject to when campaigning for a slightly less left-wing Labour candidate in a more marginal constituency. Putting yourself in a position of accepting or even being compromised is a fate worse than death among your narrow spectrum of political peers.

Labour will almost certainly only be able to get into government in Westminster again with a parliamentary majority once they start acting like wanting to be a party of governance again. The only hope otherwise is if events in 2020/21 at home and overseas turn out to mean that 2019 was an ideal election to "lose". Even then, I'd still doubt Corbyn or any future successor that would be parachuted in by Momentum could realistically grab that prize. Right now, the Tories are there for the taking, but Labour are showing an electoral nous equivalent to a certifiable idiot getting knocked down by a parked car. Yes, they are up against a hostile media & PR environment, but pretty much every Labour leader in living memory has had to face it to a lesser or greater extent.
Boiler, Malcolm Armsteen, cycloon and 1 others liked this
By visage
Membership Days Posts
#591690
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:08 pm
Nationally, Labour – often with the help of Momentum – has also been sending armies of volunteers into seats like Chingford and Uxbridge in a bid to take out big Conservative names like Iain Duncan-Smith, and the prime minister.
This reminds me of the Lib Dem "decapitation" strategy from 2005. That didn't work. They'd already got what they could from that type of seat. And it wasn't like losing Oliver Letwin or David Davis would have been a mortal blow anyway.
Btu in a FPTP system its still better to get a small number of headline victories than increase your vote nationwide by 5% but still come 3rd in every seat.
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