[Tubby Isaacs]

His "movement" isn't in good shape- see Long-Bailey and Burgon's challenges.

But we're talking about him personally, and he was unbeatable in a leadership challenge because of the personal loyalty he encouraged. I'm not saying it works for me, but it's easy to see how lots of people can lap it up. The easy answers offered to nearly everything ("principles"), the hostility to him of people they don't like. They don't see a bloke who couldn't win an egg and spoon race, they see somebody who "campaigned" for stuff they like.

Tony Benn basically faded after 1981, and he was way more able than Corbyn, younger, and with a much more significant base in Parliament, local councils etc. I don't see any reason that Jez, left to himself, won't go the same way.

[youngian]

He went unchallenged because he either had to win or quit. He believed his own hype, failed, and lost. The myth that he’d pull in a huge youth turnout, that it really was all votes for him in 2017 and not votes against May, and that people were desperate for a socialist government was broken, whatever the excuses made.

He was unchallenged because he was already doomed. Those not in his close circle would have wanted to keep their powder dry so as not to go too early and be accused by other challengers of disloyalty, damaging the party before an election etc. Those in his circle couldn’t move before he resigned because they’d risk not receiving the nod.

The Tories are under no such delusions and know they have to work to keep the votes lent to them in GE2019. A sobering thought that if Cameron survived Corbyn would only have one GE defeat under his belt and would still be here until 2025. I could only see one chink of light as a way out of this nightmare to avoid extinction; Starmer keeps his head down and woos party members with loyalty and good performances to position himself after Corbyn is decisively beaten in an election. Thank goodness that one was spot on.

[crabcakes_windermere]

But we're talking about him personally, and he was unbeatable in a leadership challenge because of the personal loyalty he encouraged. I'm not saying it works for me, but it's easy to see how lots of people can lap it up. The easy answers offered to nearly everything ("principles"), the hostility to him of people they don't like. They don't see a bloke who couldn't win an egg and spoon race, they see somebody who "campaigned" for stuff they like.

I see your point, but I'm not sure how much of that is it all being personal loyalty as it is a combination of some personal loyalty, but also loyalty to "the project" of making Labour a hard left-wing party and having him in charge to enable this (which he now can't help with), loyalty from people to someone who they know will give them cover in what they do/don't allow (which is why it didn't transfer over to RLB - her politics appear the same, but she's not a known entity with decades of examples of who they'll happily hang out with/defend), and just taking any opportunity to piss off remoaner blairite red tory traitor bastards etc. It would explain why his block of support didn't do what he expected them to do and just transfer over en masse to his chosen successor - because suddenly people's vested interests weren't necessarily all best served by the same person.

The legal fund set up for him, if he was as personally popular as claimed*, should be heaving. But it's mustered just 17,000 donors across the UK as a whole, despite national press coverage of it and hard pushing on social media. That's less than half of the votes he won by in his own constituency, contributing to help him win an apparently strong case and to vindicate him personally and absolve him of all blame. It should be hundreds of thousands of people.

When people are asked quite literally to put their money where their mouth is for Corbyn the man not Corbyn the Labour MP, even a token donation to show support, they suddenly seem very busy with other things to do.

*by his supporters, I mean!

[Tubby Isaacs]

I think the fundraising is pretty impressive.

You don't need to raise anything like that much money for now. He's got more than enough for expensive lawyers to get on the case and give John Ware something to think about. That's the key at this stage. Some expensive lawyers might do this pro bono too, which will leave even more in the kitty spare. Things will get more expensive if it progresses to court, of course, but I don't see why he shouldn't be in a position to raise a load more then too.

[Abernathy]

Well, impressive, if that's the word, for yet another iteration of the futile vanity that was such a defining characteristic of Corbyn's term as leader.

Ironic that most or all of it is likely to go to paying damages to Mr. Ware.

[davidjay]

Vanity. That one word sums up the whole woebegotten time when Corbyn was leader. Four years wasted and the very future of the party jeopardised, all for one man's vanity.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Always surrounded by young women, too.

Mrs A reckons he's a wrong 'un.

[crabcakes_windermere]

To be fair, I wouldn’t be surprised if the young women (or young people in general) isn’t some cack-handed PR effort to both perpetuate the idea his politics are really appealing to youth and also to make him look younger by reflection.

When “John” Menzies Campbell was Lib Dem leader I remember they kept getting him to pose with F1 cars and the like, and you just thought “fucking hell, I hope they don’t let an old bloke like him have a go”.

[youngian]

Always surrounded by young women, too.

Mrs A reckons he's a wrong 'un.

I’ve never heard of any impropriety but it is reflection of his vanity.

[Oblomov]

To be fair, I wouldn’t be surprised if the young women (or young people in general) isn’t some crack-handed PR effort to both perpetuate the idea his politics are really appealing to youth and also to make him look younger by reflection.

Quite, his appearance at Glastonbury 2017 being greeted with that ghastly "OH JEREMY CORBYN" chant was his "messiah-upon-the-mount" moment, and he thought he'd ride into office based on one middle-class festival crowd and a handful of memes (possibly unironically) depicting him as Jesus Christ.

Pity that was all quashed by the majority of whistleblowers on the Panroma investigation being under 35.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Always surrounded by young women, too.

Mrs A reckons he's a wrong 'un.

I’ve never heard of any impropriety but it is reflection of his vanity.

I think that's her point. Narcissism.
He also triggers her 'skin crawl' response.

She's rarely wrong...

[youngian]

Quite, his appearance at Glastonbury 2017 being greeted with that ghastly "OH JEREMY CORBYN" chant was his "messiah-upon-the-mount" moment" and he thought he'd ride into office based on one middle-class festival crowd and a handful of memes (possibly unironically) depicting him as Jesus Christ.

Pity that was all quashed by the majority of whistleblowers on the Panroma investigation being under 35.

There was a staggering amount of ignorance about who Corbyn was in 2017 not just from Tory voters who didn’t know his foreign policy past but from young left leaning Remainers as well. He got found out by both groups.

[Abernathy]

Here's an interesting little curio, from April 2015.

Jez & John ‘don’t believe in leaders’. They don’t believe in Parliamentary democracy. They think former leaders ought to ‘silence themselves’ and stop sticking their noses in things that no longer concern them.

Well, who'd a thunk it?

These Rebel MPs Are Planning a War with Labour Austerity

https://www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/ ... wEKV4sqj-U

[youngian]

McDonnell.... "We believe that leaders should be following the masses.”

That worked out well. Isn’t that what a weather vain leader does rather than sign posts like Benn and Jez?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Well, impressive, if that's the word, for yet another iteration of the futile vanity that was such a defining characteristic of Corbyn's term as leader.

Ironic that most or all of it is likely to go to paying damages to Mr. Ware.

Is it likely?

Does Ware want to go all the way? Is he comfortable with everything he'd need to release to Team Jez under discovery?