[Tubby Isaacs]

This doesn't sound like a beheading. Sounds like a nightmare of letters going back and forth.

[The Weeping Angel]

As others have said, this isn't entirely healthy. Sure, lots of 15 year olds are interested in politics and will have a view on Corbyn. But having them do this as "Labour" is drawing them far too closely into bitter disputes.

The chair of Young Labour has reacted after being told to take down that tweet.

[oboogie]

Which 60s counter culture protest singer will feature most prominently?

I've got an eerie suspicion it'll be Joan Baez.

If Corbyn's gofers are up to speed it should be Phil Ochs.

So it'll probably be Donovan.

[oboogie]

My mind is boggling at the thought of St Jeremy of the Allotment actually allowing himself a luxury item. What'll it be, a signed photo of Hugo Chavez?

A mirror.

[davidjay]

Can't he just go?

[Malcolm Armsteen]

What - and admit defeat? Don't you know he's infallible...

[davidjay]

What - and admit defeat? Don't you know he's infallible...

And that's just the point. The Desert Island Discs stunt isn't just some nice little nostalgia piece, it's a calculated move from someone who can't accept that his time is done and who still acts like a king in exile, awaiting the call to return from a people who have realised their mistake.

[Cyclist]

This doesn't sound like a beheading. Sounds like a nightmare of letters going back and forth.

It is a Very Clever Thing. The Anointed One has gone out on a limb. The Party has offered him a ladder and a saw. Whichever one His Allotmentship takes will be his choice, and will be *seen* to be his choice.

Has someone high-up in the Party been reading Machiavelli?

[Oblomov]

Or that interminably tedious tosspot Bob Dylan

Oi! That's enough of that, thank you.

Okay but only to stop taking the thread off topic

Those Young Labour members that joined because of the Jezziah and feel spurned at the moment, did they join because of him or was it the £3 entry fee he brought in?

[Andy McDandy]

As many have pointed out, politics is a strange game. You gain power by promising the Earth, then once in power realise that you have to compromise and work with the possible in order to get anything done. Hence Powell's quote about all political careers.

That's not to say that idealism is a bad thing - hell, it's better than default cynicism. But it does mean that politicians have a tendency to look no further than the next electoral cycle, and "keeping the numbers up", or playing to the self-selecting support base or to the swing voters becomes more important than affecting major change.

Corbyn's leadership certainly bought back to the party a great many who had split off to the wilder extremes of the left. But it didn't bring in many from the centre. And as we've seen with the Tories embracing the Kipper right, bringing them in doesn't shut them up.

Effectively what we've seen in the last few years is a reversal of the old system in which people at the fringes felt unrepresented by the mainstream parties, and largely stayed at home or wasted their votes. They basically took over the asylum on both sides and now it's the centrists who feel abandoned by both Labour and the Conservatives.

Sadly, it seems that "sticking to your guns" and "saying what you think" play better than "having an open mind" or "developing a considered view". As our Northern Irish members can testify, it's how the DUP supplanted the UUP - take a position so extreme that you can paint everyone else as morally and politically impure. However, at least as we've seen at a local level over the last few years, nutters tend to be bad at running things. See for example the fates of so many UKIP or BNP county councillors.

Starmer and Biden give me hope, but I fear that the genie is out of the bottle. We're in an age of democratisation of views, and every nutter being given a platform. I can only hope for the sane people on all sides taking back control, and the ranters going back to the fringes.

[Tubby Isaacs]

It is a Very Clever Thing. The Anointed One has gone out on a limb. The Party has offered him a ladder and a saw. Whichever one His Allotmentship takes will be his choice, and will be *seen* to be his choice.

Has someone high-up in the Party been reading Machiavelli?

The problem is that'll he make sure that, even if he fails Starmer's test, he'll make sure that he doesn't fail it by much. He'll then wheel out lawyers and supporters that keep him in the public eye.

[crabcakes_windermere]

Starmer and Biden give me hope, but I fear that the genie is out of the bottle. We're in an age of democratisation of views, and every nutter being given a platform. I can only hope for the sane people on all sides taking back control, and the ranters going back to the fringes.

I think something odd will come to the rescue - human nature. We've had 10 years of increasing popularist behaviour and politics, and the simple answer is the public get bored of the status quo - even the fans of the incumbents. They got sick of Trump, they're getting sick of Boris. They're sick of Bolsonaro. Everyone looks jealously at New Zealand and what they have - normality *because* of their leadership.

In no uncertain terms, Gordon Brown would have been a better PM than Cameron and the coalition, but Labour was just done. And now, I think their time is up.

[crabcakes_windermere]

Apparently the fan club are beside themselves with glee as legal proceedings have begun, and they are clearly expecting some sort of slam dunk and for Starmer to be revealed as a cheat and a fraud going back on some alleged deal with Jeremy. No doubt they’ll expect him to resign etc.

Of course when this doesn’t happen and the former DPP turns out to have been on solid legal ground and the “deal” was either no such thing or it turns out Corbyn didn’t say what he agreed he would, but instead offered up an “interpretation” of it, there’ll be some other caveat wheeled out.

[oboogie]

If there was a deal, team Starmer deny it's existence and, if it exists, why haven't Corbyn's people produced it?

More likely an ultimatum, "Unless you do this, you're out". Corbyn has attempted to get away with doing something less than what he was told to do and, surprise, surprise, no whip for Jeremy.

[Tubby Isaacs]

If they're pulling a stroke, Team Starmer aren't going to leave a paper trail.