Topics about the Labour Party
:sunglasses: 60.9 % ❤ 1.4 % :thumbsup: 6.2 % 😯 2.6 % :grinning: 21.6 % 🧥 0.8 % 🙏 2.4 % 😟 1.2 % :cry: 2 % :shit: 0.8 %
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#637228
Like it or not, people vote for the leader and not the party. In 2019 you had the affable, blustering but essentially positive and optimistic in rhetoric Johnson vs the tetchy, permanently annoyed Corbyn with his commie hat. And unsurprisingly people preferred the former to the latter. But it's the exact same reason so many voted for Blair over Major, or Cameron over Brown. Nothing is permanent in politics, once a seat goes red / blue it doesn't stay that way forever (obviously some do but they're largely irrelevant and haven't switched for 100+ years).

By 2024, Starmer may be seen as bland and a bit boring, but he is likely to be up against one of the following;

Boris Johnson, but a much diminished one on the defensive and without the grounds for optimism he could call on in 2019
Michael Gove, who seems to be someone who inspires little passion in his favour but a lot against, and is also a bit weird
Dominic Raab, who comes over as even more boring than Starmer but much less effective at doing stuff
Rishi Sunak, the only one who could pose a real threat but then there's the whole "BAME" factor which may find Tory voters trying to justify not voting for him

People thought boring old Joe Biden couldn't beat the flashy Trump, but he did. Yes the pandemic helped (events, dear boy) but ultimately what people wanted in America (and I think also do in this country) is boring politics for a while. I think people are more likely to go for a boring but capable guy right now than they have been for decades.
oboogie, Zuriblue liked this
 
By Boiler
Posts
#637230
bluebellnutter wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:54 pm
People thought boring old Joe Biden couldn't beat the flashy Trump, but he did. Yes the pandemic helped (events, dear boy) but ultimately what people wanted in America (and I think also do in this country) is boring politics for a while. I think people are more likely to go for a boring but capable guy right now than they have been for decades.
I wish I could agree with you, but I can't.

Johnson is the best asset the Tories have got. Once the vaccination effects kick in (assuming they do) and it looks as though for now, Covid-19 is beaten (until another more deadly disease comes along, that is) then Johnson will slip back into his role as "Funtime Boris" who beat Covid AND Got Brexit Done.

The current eighty majority will be "chicken feed", mark my words.

And Starmer will be back on the back benches, or out of politics and Labour will be in a sodding mess. Again.
#637234
The Red Arrow wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:48 pm
But will we get the Sir Keir "Fucking Off" Starmer thread that this forum will undoubtedly be crying out for?
Thing is, if Starmer were voted out, I suspect he would fuck off because he'd understand when to get out of the way for the greater good. The problem is, Corbyn thinks he *is* the greater good. He got too used to people paying him attention, liked it, retconned the attention he got from being opposition leader into attention he got from simply being Jeremy Corbyn, and now wrongly thinks he's some sort of left-wing elder statesman like Tony Benn who earned his position and respect (even if you didn't agree with him) rather than a journeyman who lucked out in a leadership election he didn't even have any particular interest in running in other than as a token gesture

As for Johnson: an asset can rapidly become a liability. In 2024 we'll have no covid other than lingering long covid effects so the afterglow of vaccines will be long gone but the bitterness of hundreds of thousands of lives ruined by illness, on top of the memory of tens of thousands of deaths, will still be around. A generation able to vote for the first time will be doing so in full knowledge of why many of them are now missing grandparents, and in some cases parents. His shitty brexit deal will continue to unravel, with more and more shortcomings brought to light. His government will continue with its cronyism and backhanders, and outside of the "war mentality" of covid the public will increasingly view them as sleazy - the same label that did for John Major - with the added bonus of rank incompetence thanks to people like Patel, Grayling and Williamson. There will be huge, HUGE unemployment, increased prices, and increasing jealousy as we look to other countries like NZ and see how well they have come out of it, and the US and see the difference a competent, decent leader with people in roles based on their skill and experience can make.

I think as soon as things begin to sour, Johnson will do what he always does - run away. Starmer will almost certainly be facing one of the other no-marks. And given Johnson has no loyalty to anyone and will want to embellish his own record, expect him to leave it to the last minute before deciding to step down, leaving his replacements to tear lumps out of each other right before a GE. Because he'd probably rather they lost, so he can make it look like his own election victory was something more special than it was.
oboogie, Oblomov, bluebellnutter and 1 others liked this
#637235
Oblomov wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:43 pm
From the Facebook, the take of my old A-level history teacher (who first turned me properly towards leftist politics):
I doubt people care much but I would just like to bring to people's attention/remind people that there is a purge and censorship going on in the Labour Party at present.
1) Constituency Labour Parties have been banned from even discussing the suspension of Jeremy Corbyn and his continuing denial of the Labour whip.
2) Any motion supporting Corbyn or criticising Starmer has been ruled out of order.
3) Dozens of lay party officials have been suspended for defying that ruling in the name of free speech and allowing the banned subjects to be discussed.
Nothing like this occurred under Corbyn who was smeared as a ruthless extremist but apparently it is OK for the "moderate" Keir Starmer to engage in such Stalinist tactics with very little press comment.
To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.
Disappointed in him or in what he's saying?
By mattomac
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#637290
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:41 pm
The Red Arrow wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:48 pm
But will we get the Sir Keir "Fucking Off" Starmer thread that this forum will undoubtedly be crying out for?
Thing is, if Starmer were voted out, I suspect he would fuck off because he'd understand when to get out of the way for the greater good. The problem is, Corbyn thinks he *is* the greater good. He got too used to people paying him attention, liked it, retconned the attention he got from being opposition leader into attention he got from simply being Jeremy Corbyn, and now wrongly thinks he's some sort of left-wing elder statesman like Tony Benn who earned his position and respect (even if you didn't agree with him) rather than a journeyman who lucked out in a leadership election he didn't even have any particular interest in running in other than as a token gesture

As for Johnson: an asset can rapidly become a liability. In 2024 we'll have no covid other than lingering long covid effects so the afterglow of vaccines will be long gone but the bitterness of hundreds of thousands of lives ruined by illness, on top of the memory of tens of thousands of deaths, will still be around. A generation able to vote for the first time will be doing so in full knowledge of why many of them are now missing grandparents, and in some cases parents. His shitty brexit deal will continue to unravel, with more and more shortcomings brought to light. His government will continue with its cronyism and backhanders, and outside of the "war mentality" of covid the public will increasingly view them as sleazy - the same label that did for John Major - with the added bonus of rank incompetence thanks to people like Patel, Grayling and Williamson. There will be huge, HUGE unemployment, increased prices, and increasing jealousy as we look to other countries like NZ and see how well they have come out of it, and the US and see the difference a competent, decent leader with people in roles based on their skill and experience can make.

I think as soon as things begin to sour, Johnson will do what he always does - run away. Starmer will almost certainly be facing one of the other no-marks. And given Johnson has no loyalty to anyone and will want to embellish his own record, expect him to leave it to the last minute before deciding to step down, leaving his replacements to tear lumps out of each other right before a GE. Because he'd probably rather they lost, so he can make it look like his own election victory was something more special than it was.
It’s obvious Johnson won’t fight the next election, his showmanship gets tired pretty quickly and as you have said the fall out coming won’t be pretty, Johnson can’t do the “it’s for the greater good” if their are 3 million unemployed, not to mention the ever changing demographics, maybe one of his underlings might be able to be re-elected but 15 year old governments don’t usually return big majorities.
 
By davidjay
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#637322
Cyclist wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:43 am
It's high time some idiots woke up to the fact they joined the Labour Party, not the Jeremy Corbyn Party. :roll:
They did, though. They joined because of Jeremy and they'd have him back tomorrow. He is the party and the party is him.
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#637325
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:41 pm
As for Johnson: an asset can rapidly become a liability. In 2024 we'll have no covid other than lingering long covid effects so the afterglow of vaccines will be long gone but the bitterness of hundreds of thousands of lives ruined by illness, on top of the memory of tens of thousands of deaths, will still be around. A generation able to vote for the first time will be doing so in full knowledge of why many of them are now missing grandparents, and in some cases parents. His shitty brexit deal will continue to unravel, with more and more shortcomings brought to light.

There’s a popular view that once this pandemic has passed Johnson will come out smelling of roses and his numbers will rise. Quite the opposite, a national crisis generates good will even when its badly handled.
 
By Boiler
Posts
#637380
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:41 pm
In 2024 we'll have no covid other than lingering long covid effects
That, I would venture to suggest, is a rather foolhardy thing to say.
#637561
Boiler wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:51 pm
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:41 pm
In 2024 we'll have no covid other than lingering long covid effects
That, I would venture to suggest, is a rather foolhardy thing to say.
Fair point. We won’t have it the same way we have it now, though.
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