Topics about the Labour Party
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#441648
bluebellnutter wrote:
mikey mikey wrote:from your link above
Martin Fenge ‏@Fenge1 2h2 hours ago

@davidschneider Corbyn can't win; have to sort the leader before even thinking about the Tories.
0 retweets 1 like
That tweet gives some insight into the "moderates'" priorities.
What, accuracy and a desire to sort your own shit out before you can hope to do anything else?
The purpose of the linked tweet was the follow-up one below, where both pro and anti Corbyn factions utterly miss the point of the tweet and use it to have a go at each other. Again.

Right now I'd happily have the party led by a clockwork pig with rust issues as long as he or she actually had supporters and detractors who could stop bickering for 5 minutes and realise that a surefire way to lose an election is to make a party appear so split, schizophrenic, damaged and above all else utterly disinterested in what's happening outside the party that the public won't touch them. It's like precisely nothing was learned from Scottish Labour's implosion other than how to emulate it as closely as possible.
#441655
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Right now I'd happily have the party led by a clockwork pig with rust issues as long as he or she actually had supporters and detractors who could stop bickering for 5 minutes and realise that a surefire way to lose an election is to make a party appear so split, schizophrenic, damaged and above all else utterly disinterested in what's happening outside the party that the public won't touch them. It's like precisely nothing was learned from Scottish Labour's implosion other than how to emulate it as closely as possible.
Yes!
#441656
Jeremy Corbyn has refused to commit to a policy of balancing the UK’s books over the economic cycle, Labour sources have told The Huffington Post UK.

The new party leader signalled his position during a conversation with former shadow minister Alison McGovern, as he offered her the post of Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/09 ... 36658.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Intersetingly, a few weeks later McGovern was appointed as Chair of Progress.

Progress obviously have friends in the press as this aticle in the Independent demonstrates
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/joh ... 03236.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
#441659
bluebellnutter wrote:
mikey mikey wrote:from your link above
Martin Fenge ‏@Fenge1 2h2 hours ago

@davidschneider Corbyn can't win; have to sort the leader before even thinking about the Tories.
0 retweets 1 like
That tweet gives some insight into the "moderates'" priorities.
What, accuracy and a desire to sort your own shit out before you can hope to do anything else?

I think it is fair to say that Mr. Fenge regards deposing Corbyn as the PLP's priority and not holding the Conservative government to account. I can see no other way of interpreting the sentence in bold. Nor do I think that highlighting this tweet was "attacking the other side". It is what it is.

Whether this is indicative of all "moderates" is only conjecture, but alarmingly you seem to share his priorities.

If that is so, then what sort of unity, harmony or cooperation is possible without Corbyn's resignation?

Even if he should do so, how could anybody expect the election of a "moderate"? Unless the majority of members have suddenly changed their mind, then we could expect to see the election of another left-wing MP as leader. That is, of course, IF the PLP nominate one.

The only way for a "moderate" leader be elected would be if the nominees read something like this

Angela Eagle
Tristram Hunt
Dan Jarvis
Liz Kendall

The omission of anyone representing the left of the party would be the biggest own goal in the history of the party.

To sum up: if the "moderates" insist that the leadership must be one approved 100% by them, no commpromises, then all this talk of cooperation is just finger wagging and tutting.



What, accuracy and a desire to sort your own shit out before you can hope to do anything else?
#441671
mikey mikey wrote: I can see no other way of interpreting the sentence in bold.
How about that Corbyn is failing to hold the tories to account and is in fact emboldening them? That it's impossible to hold the tories to account when Corbyn is doing a piss poor job?
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#441674
"I can confirm that I have no interest in leading the Labour Party at this time. As you are aware, I am still dealing with the rust problem that has been such a difficulty for my family, and the opportunity to lead my party has quite simply come at the wrong time."

.....said a clockwork pig, earlier today.
#441687
Re: anyone thinking of posting anything pro or anti Corbyn. Read this:

http://metro.co.uk/2016/01/10/junior-do ... 2993/#mv-b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then tell me, in all honesty, how very very important it is that before dealing with the Tories you absolutely must slag off some junior nobody who disrespected someone you like on Twitter or how someone on an interview said something you didn't wholly agree with etc. etc.

Because this determination of the right arm to tear off the left and vice versa is taking the focus away from issues like this when it is urgently needed. And that self indulgence is being noticed by the electorate and by the people who need help the most.
#441693
lord_kobel wrote:
mikey mikey wrote: I can see no other way of interpreting the sentence in bold.
How about that Corbyn is failing to hold the tories to account and is in fact emboldening them? That it's impossible to hold the tories to account when Corbyn is doing a piss poor job?


Let's look at the original again.

Corbyn can't win; have to sort the leader before even thinking about the Tories.

Meanwhile Jeremy wrote this yesterday in The Mirror

Jeremy Corybn’s call to arms: 'It’s time to focus our fire on the Tories'
There has been a lot of media coverage around my reshuffle this week which was about securing a stronger Labour leadership team.

While it was going on we were holding the government to account on floods, Europe and its support for Saudi Arabia.

Holding the government to account is our first priority.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/je ... ts-7144306" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#441695
Thinking back to when Smithy died and Tony Blair was elected as the new leader in 1994 (and yes, I know it was all a very long time ago), I didn't like Blair much and trusted him less ( I voted for Margaret Beckett in the leadership election because I thought she had done a very fine job after we lost John Smith). Somebody said at the time that he was a sort of pot-bound politician - no roots, and I very much agreed with that.

Of course Blair was elected and the rest is well documented, but I wasn't alone in being far from happy that Blair was our new leader. But I bit the bullet, and got on with the job of working towards victory in 1997. Broadly speaking, so did everybody else in the party.

Contrast this with where we are now. I, like Malcolm and a few others on here, did not vote for Jeremy as leader. But again, as in 1994, I want, as a loyal Labour footsoldier, to see Corbyn's leadership succeed and for Labour to get back to government in 2020. So I'm knuckling down.

However, there is a very important difference between 1994 and 2015. In 1994, people that were not fans of Blair comforted themselves that we were pretty certainly on the road to victory in the run up to the 97 landslide, with progress in the polls and in by elections and council elections being notched week by week, so disappointment in Blair, over say, the totally unnecessary re-casting of clause IV to take one example, was ameliorated. Arguably, this would have taken place whoever was leader given the hopeless state of Major's miserable government and the huge degree to which the mood of the public longed for change.

Nevertheless, there we were, gliding towards victory with a grinning Blair at our head.

Here in 2016, though Corbyn has arguably proved something by holding onto Oldham fairly emphatically, he remains more unpopular than Miliband with the electorate at large, shows no sign of being able to change that, and has all but established a public reputation as a serially incompetent leader of the party. So people like me, who remained staunch, loyal, et al, when we were making progress under Blair, a leader we had not wanted, precisely because of that progress, find ourselves again with a leader we do not want and did not vote for, but this time without the comfort of the electoral progress we enjoyed under Blair. And it's hard. Very hard, let me tell you, to bite the bullet and knuckle down under these circumstances. We do it because we can't help it - it's in our DNA. But the hopelessness of the position - Corbyn can't win becoming ever more set in stone with every new cock-up, batch of resignations, or misjudgement - makes it so, so hard to keep going.
#441704
Is there not something to say for the fact Blair was more of a charismatic man, making it easier to unite behind him? I would say much the same about Cameron and Farage.
#441711
I voted for Blair, having been subjected to a couple of years' propaganda from when he became shadow Home Secretary. I seemed to get a letter from him every week - do you remember the one of him looking impossibly young and smoking a pipe? Channeling his inner Harold Wilson or something. Quite bizarre.

Strangely, what concerned me wasn't Blair, but Blunkett. And yet I ended up at the Department for Education because of the truly great educational initiatives that Michael Barber was coming up with, and which had been planned carefully in opposition. Others, such as Robin Cook, were much more to my liking. I liked the cut of John Prescott's jib (and still do), Mo Mowlem (what a tragic loss), Donald Dewar, another huge loss, Beckett, Darling and Brown. Not so much Clare Short, as I had met her and wasn't overly impressed.

I knew a bit about Blair's intentions in taking the Liberals into government, and eventually absorbing them in a permanent liberal coalition, a sort of successor to the Liberal tradition before 1914. I approved of that - but in fact it has been Cameron who managed that on the right, thanks to the short-sightedness of Blunkett and Prescott who, seeing a landslide victory, had nothing to do with ideas of merger, and Ashdown, who was just too limited.

So in those early, heady days - we had voted as a family, and afterwards we all sat in the pub garden of the Greyhound in Carshalton, watching the sun set across the ponds, knowing we had won and looking forward to a bright new future - it was glad new morning.

Within a year Mrs A had returned her card (over Blunkett's primitive ideas in education) and I must admit I rather took a back seat in the local party, but then I was very busy, and there were things that didn't impress me. And then at the DfE I was debarred from visible politics, so came back around 2005 to a local party that had been shredded by the Lib Dems in local elections and was struggling to maintain membership.

Which takes us to Brown, Miliband and Corbyn. I didn't vote for any of them, but as Abers says, as a loyal soldier you get on and do the necessary, the canvassing, the deliveries, the press releases and the newsletters.

I'm 67 this year. If we don't win in 2020 I will leave this world under a Tory government. I have a handicapped grandson who will never get the levels of support from the NHS or education that I saw in my career. I have other grandchildren who are already suffering an increasingly irrelevant and ineffective education regime. So anyone who allows those things to perpetuate by petty bickering over pin-head differences and old grudges (I'm looking at you, Ken Livingstone) or by sheer ineptitude isn't my pal.

I've spent over 50 years in the party, being elected to 'internal office' at the age of 16. I hope to resign as chair this year and pass the job on to a younger person. After all that time and effort it would be nice to see the traditions of social democracy and the betterment of the people carried on, with co-operation with the trade unions who could possibly see a horizon beyond their own members, with the Co-Op movement and the Fabians playing a part, and even making inroads into the Liberals to bring back people with a social conscience to a socialist party.

So if I get a bit antsy, you'll forgive me, I hope.
#441712
I wish it were petty bickering. I could be wrong, but my guess is that the "moderates" will not cease to undermine a Labour until they have forced Corbyn to resign and held another leadership election with only "moderate" nominees. The subsequent leadership will be perceived as a "fix" .
#441713
mikey mikey wrote:I wish it were petty bickering. I could be wrong, but my guess is that the "moderates" will not cease to undermine a Labour until they have forced Corbyn to resign and held another leadership election with only "moderate" nominees. The subsequent leadership will be perceived as a "fix" .
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. None.
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