[bluebellnutter]

Most would regard offering a free vote on Syria as being a sign that he couldn't control his own party rather than "Offering a compromise to his party". What you've basically proved is that Corbyn is a weaker leader than Ed Miliband.

[mikey mikey]

Most would regard offering a free vote on Syria as being a sign that he couldn't control his own party rather than "Offering a compromise to his party". What you've basically proved is that Corbyn is a weaker leader than Ed Miliband.

And what you have basically proved is that, like so, many so-called "moderates" , you cannot distinguish between making a compromise and showing weakness. Be it either on their part, or on the part of others.

Should your case prove to be typical of those on the right of the party, it does not bode well for any hopes of consensus building.

[crabcakes_windermere]

The problem with the Syria vote is that he made the offer of a free vote because he knew if he didn't he'd have revolt. There was a good case for not bombing Syria - if he couldn't convince the party that followed Ed Miliband in pulling back from bombing of it (with the caveats that is wasn't the same situation) in the knowledge that the broad consensus of public opinion was against it too (or at the very least not particularly in favour of it), it does tend to suggest he did not make that case well.

I grant that it's between a rock and a hard place, but I'm not sure you can say taking the only option that remained that wasn't immediately embarrassing is really a sign of leadership or compromise. A compromise would be working with those in favour to draft a new proposal on when bombing would be acceptable, not washing your hands of the decision.

To be fair, Corbyn is coming from a difficult place as his history shows him to be a pacifist. That's admirable, but it also means that when he does take a policy position of inaction he needs to be doubly clear on why it's a bad thing and have an absolute watertight case because otherwise it will come over as 'default leftie hand-wringing CND hippie shit' (for want of a better phrase). I.e. it appears as the choice he would have made regardless of the ins and outs of the situation rather than a strong decision made on clearly good grounds.

[Andy McDandy]

Another thing to consider, I think, was what the Syria vote was really about. It wasn't really about bombing IS in Syria, but about being seen to do something against them. But you can't have a vote on something that vague. So yes, if you polled people on bombing IS many might say they doubted its effectiveness or were opposed. Ask the same sample if they thought something should be done about IS in the wake of the Paris attacks and the Russian air crash, and I'm guessing they'd say yes, even though the exact retaliation was not defined.

[bluebellnutter]

From the Guardian liveblog today

12m ago
12:34
Labour reshuffle continues

Like the Archers, Cliff Richard, the monarchy and a question from Jim Naughtie, the Labour reshuffle just goes on and on and on.

The party has just put out a press notice announcing three new appointments to shadow ministerial posts. All three are taking up new posts, not replacing someone.

Imran Hussain - shadow development minister

Kate Osamor - shadow equalities minister

Thangam Debbonaire - shadow culture minister

And Dave Anderson has been made a whip.

In a statement to his local paper, Anderson said Labour had to stop “fighting each other” and focus on attacking the Tories.

It’s vital that we move on from the internal navel gazing and personality clashes and started taking the fight to this most vicious of governments.

They are hammering the poor, decimating our councils and the vital services they provide, attacking our democracy through the Trade Union Bill and pushing on with plans to redraw constituency boundaries with the aim of giving themselves a big advantage in future elections.

Hussain and Osamore both backed Jeremy Corbyn in the Labour leadership contest, Debbonaire backed Yvette Cooper and Anderson backed Andy Burnham.

[mikey mikey]

David Anderson is a great bloke from my neck of the woods. Great news.

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