Topics about the Labour Party
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By davidjay
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#585153
Boiler wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:02 pm
The Wino faction speaks.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/0 ... s-johnson/
Anyone who annoys that rag-bag of neo-Fascists and Dave Sparts must be doing something right.
Boiler, oboogie liked this
 
By davidjay
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#585178
youngian wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:09 am
In summary from O’Neil: Jess Phillips is an insincere populist but won’t act as a delegate with no personal views in order to retain her seat. What does he think the daughter of an NHS bureaucrat should sound like; Penelope Keith?
That's just it - politicians have no principles, but when they talk with obvious sincerity and passion they're harpies. They're part of the metropolitan elite but she has a Brummie accent so she's common. Labour don't represent the working class, but she cares about the local community and she can't be a proper Socialist because her parents had a few bob. She argues in defence of women's rights and she hates men. And so it goes on, and the sheer idiocy of her critics is summed by their belief that she's going to lose what she has turned from a Lib Dem seat into one of the safest Labour ones in the country..
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#585181
My friend Kerrie is a manager of mental health services in Manchester. She's an "NHS bureaucrat", albeit one who rose through the ranks of nurses and gained the experience and qualifications required. She's also got a Lancashire accent you can tarmac a road with. She grew up in a council house in Bury.

You know what's elitist? O'Neill saying that he knows what the proles want best.
spoonman liked this
 
By Samanfur
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#585186
Aimed at Ian Lavery at the time, but still applicable:

How dare you.

How. Dare. You.

To you, it seems that I am not "ordinary people". But people who talk like a convicted thug and fraudster (Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, aka Tommy Robinson) or a public school-educated former stockbroker (Nigel Farage) are.

I expect that sort of "We've had enough of experts" attitude and use of "intellectual" as an insult from the Tories and the Kippers, but I thought that you were better than that.

There's a longstanding attitude that you can't be truly in tune with the working class and comment on it unless you live in a skip, and had an upbringing that'd make the Four Yorkshiremen want to organise a GoFundMe for you.

For all both sides of the political aisle make a lot of noise about helping the working class to advance and communities not being left behind, it's all too common that if you have the cheek to actually try to better yourself, you're instantly accused of no longer being authentic when you talk about your experiences.

And I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting sick of this beatification of the lowest common denominator as "working class culture" - a rare, delicate thing that apparently now has to be protected, nurtured and made allowances for, or you're all snobs, the terrorists've already won, etc etc.

It inevitably involves being racist, sexist, almost invariably white, distrustful of any kind of Other and above all uneducated. My parents had to take out multiple loans from my grandparents to get me through sixth form and into a top ten university that I worked myself ragged to gain entry to, but it seems that because I can now articulate myself better than by repeatedly shouting "Get on with it!“ or grunting "E-E-E-D-L!" through twelve cans of Stella, my opinion is now apparently invalid.

I was born in Salford and brought up in Wigan. My parents were an engineer and a cleaner. Owing to a now mongrel accent, I'm not likely to be mistaken for anything other than a little northern Heathcliff in any company other than working class.

But was I brought up to feel that this sort of casual racism, sexism and distrust of education or any kind of Other shilled by the Brexit Party and their ilk was acceptable?

No, I wasn't!

I was taught to make something of myself and do better than my parents did. So were most of the people I was at school with. To see those people and their efforts reduced to the same level as the likes of White Van Dan and Stephen Yaxley-Lennon simply because they're working class makes my blood boil.

This whole "working class culture" idea, as far as I'm concerned, is yet another product of the sort of Alf Garnett worshipper nostalgic for the days before They came along and ruined everything, by making you treat Other people like people. A misplaced nostalgia normally harnessed and marketed by the Tories as yet another way to make anyone on less than six figures and a trust fund one step above a Morlock, who couldn't possibly understand that life or move into it. So why should we act like They can?

It infantillises people rather than make them think critically about whose fault their problems really are, and insults and attempts to invalidate any other viewpoint.

I was never raised to be ashamed of where I came from, but I was raised to behave decently, to want to improve myself (and more importantly, to accept that that would mean effort on my part), to take responsibility for my own failings rather than blame whatever scapegoat was handy, and if I didn't think that something was my fault, to actually be critical about whose it was.

I was brought up that yes, life was difficult sometimes, but that should give me empathy for other people. Otherwise, I'd be no better than the people already bullying me for my lack of designer gear.

And now, Ian Lavery, the Chair of the party that styles itself "for the many", is telling me that my opinion doesn't matter because I aspired to something other than the status quo of the rich man at his castle and the poor man at his gate.

I am as much an "ordinary people" as anyone else. I earn less than 10kpa, and live in a former council house in an East Lancashire former mill town. I do not need the Blue Fairy to make me A Real Woman.

Someone who currently earns over 79kpa (the current salary of an MP, minus expenses, ministerial appointments, outside consultancies and perks - Mr. Lavery has been an MP for nine years) does not get to call me a member of the elite, simply because I have an education.

Current data says that actually, "fighting for the biggest share of the 48%" might actually get Labour somewhere. They got a lot of those voters they picked up from 2015 to 2017 from the LDs and Greens in the first place, and could very possibly get them back.

But it seems as though the influx of young people who joined the party during that period - the people who benefited from the push to get more people to university, don't forget - never happened in Mr. Lavery's head.

He had a willing base of educated, enthused people wanting to take his party forward. But he'd rather doggedly race after people who find genuine liars, Nazis and fascists worth voting for, and court nothing but the demographic Labour relied on over forty years ago, the lowest common denominator of whom haven't changed their prejudices since.

I may not have a valid voice in Mr. Lavery's eyes, but we're all equal at the ballot box.

He would do well to remember that.
youngian, Boiler, davidjay and 6 others liked this
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#585189
There's a longstanding attitude that you can't be truly in tune with the working class and comment on it unless you live in a skip, and had an upbringing that'd make the Four Yorkshiremen want to organise a GoFundMe for you.

There’s a scene in Our Friends in the North in which Christopher Ecclestone’s character thinks he can win a working class marginal by being proleier than thou. ‘I live in the high rise,’ he tells voters on the doorstep. ‘Well you’re no bloody good if you can’t get out of there.’
 
By cycloon
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#585275
Andy McDandy wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:33 am
My friend Kerrie is a manager of mental health services in Manchester. She's an "NHS bureaucrat", albeit one who rose through the ranks of nurses and gained the experience and qualifications required. She's also got a Lancashire accent you can tarmac a road with. She grew up in a council house in Bury.

You know what's elitist? O'Neill saying that he knows what the proles want best.
Excellent post Samanfur + re: the above: I recall reading a Melanie Phillips article on the Times about how Brexit was allllll about inside M25 vs outside M25. It was damning the Cosmopolitans for not knowing what the proles wanted and how dare they condescend, and it did so by homogenising the entire rest of the (working class) UK into some sort of blob for her own prejudices. I'd laugh, but... It's as if the labour movement never happened.

Of course the parallel thing that is never far away is utter contempt for these same imagined people. They are feckless single mothers and benefit thieves one moment, sainted salt of the earth the next. It's indiscriminate and utterly hypocritical.
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#585279
I think it was Amol Rajan who summed up most punditry as rich people telling poor people what's good for them. He said that you'll get all sorts of faces and voices on the TV sofas - male, female, white, black, gay, straight, disabled, old, young and so on. But you won't hear poor people.
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