Topics about the Labour Party
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#477547
D.C. Harrison wrote:What was the point of the Leadership challenge? Far as I can see, it basically failed in all objectives and, indeed, had the opposite effect of making Corbyn even more entrenched in his position.
I think the plan was to essentially embarrass Corbyn into resigning after the massive defeat in the confidence motion. However they hadn't reckoned on his stubbornness and sheer brass neck in refusing to accept that and quietly saunter off back to the back-benches.

The (bizarre) decision by the NEC to allow him to stay on the ballot effectively rendered everything since a foregone conclusion.
#477548
LJB: I wonder if maybe there was some sort of event that moved focus to control of the party? Almost as if the question of leadership was a pressing challenge which required attention.
#477549
bluebellnutter wrote:I think the plan was to essentially embarrass Corbyn into resigning after the massive defeat in the confidence motion. However they hadn't reckoned on his stubbornness and sheer brass neck in refusing to accept that and quietly saunter off back to the back-benches.

The (bizarre) decision by the NEC to allow him to stay on the ballot effectively rendered everything since a foregone conclusion.
So, again, total clusterfuck by Labour, showcasing their utter lack of awareness of a situation and organisational ability to sort it out.

Brilliant. Nice to know it goes beyond Corbyn.
#477551
Oh it definitely goes beyond Corbyn, I doubt you'd find many thinking his removal would be a silver bullet which would lead to the party suddenly polling in the high thirties and getting Theresa sweating in her space-suit. However he does appear to be unable to present a proper face for the party (which is his job) to paper over the cracks, or even to (as Ed M did) act as a bit of a lightning beacon to draw criticism away from the party.

Frankly, the Tories are putting Labour to shame in every single aspect of what it takes to be a successful political party right now, from the way they run their leadership elections to the way they grind out election wins. It's like England at the Euros versus Portugal at the Euros, neither are top class but one fell apart and the other got the job done.
#477552
I think that the vote of no confidence and the accompanying front bench resignations really were triggered by a sort of panic after the referendum vote was lost and Cameron was replaced by May, as much of the PLP became very concerned that an early election would be precipitated by May. They had plenty of concerns about Corbyn's abysmal performance, which are well documented, but weren't banking on Corbyn stubbornly staying put after the no confidence vote, rather than stepping aside as a decent leader would, but once that happened a leadership challenge was simply inevitable. Credit is due to Angela Eagle and Owen Smith for stepping up.

The real killer was the NEC's decision that an incumbent leader facing a challenge was not required to seek PLP nominations in order to be on the ballot paper. After that, in hindsight, the challenge was doomed to fall short.

Even Owen Smith acknowledges now that the move against Corbyn would have been better left for, say, another year, but circumstances conspired to jar the PLP's elbows.
#477558
bluebellnutter wrote:or even to (as Ed M did) act as a bit of a lightning beacon to draw criticism away from the party.
Does that work? The problem Miliband, now Corbyn, had is that people saw them and thought "nah, don't want them in charge" and voted Tory or UKIP. The classic "can you imagine them dealing with Putin?" trope that gets spewed out every time.

The Labour Leader, basically, can't look like a clown, because every tiny error is going to be over-analysed to death, and they've had that huge problem for the best part of a decade. Neither Smith or Eagle were the answer either.

I'd suggest the opposite: that the party needs to start taking more of the flak away from the leader. Right now, too many are hiding.
#477564
D.C. Harrison wrote:I'd suggest the opposite: that the party needs to start taking more of the flak away from the leader. Right now, too many are hiding.
I see where you're coming from, and to an extent I agree, but can you blame them? Right now they're faced with an almost impossible choice.

On the one hand, they tie themselves in closely with Corbyn. It should be fairly obvious by now to everyone but the most deluded that it will sooner or later end up in an almighty car crash (the discussion seems to be more how that happens, whether by electoral means, a split in the party or something else), and it would be potential electoral suicide for many Labour MPs to associate themselves with that, especially if they live in areas which voted In in June. And many more voters may feel that tying yourself in with Corbyn shows a lack of judgement and punish you accordingly. And even if they somehow get re-elected in a Labour defeat, as also seems inevitable, if they're in the Corbyn camp then what happens when Corbyn goes (as he should do in that scenario, although I have my doubts)? They become tainted with the failure of the previous regime and cast aside when the next leader comes to picking their own dream team. You either have to hope the next leader is a Corbynite who is sympathetic to your cause as the cards have been stacked in their favour before the election (as JC seems to be trying to do) or you're toast. The best you can hope for is a Select Committee role, if you're lucky.

On the other hand, speaking up and criticising Corbyn leads to becoming a target for what I will refer to, not without foundation, as "the mob". At the lighter end of this this could mean being slaughtered and character assassinated on social media by the vocal side of that, but could lead (as it has in some cases) to calls for deselection (effectively demanding they be fired), death threats and bricks being hurled through windows.

Which then leaves the third option of hiding away and doing nothing. This does mean they open themselves up for legitimate criticism such as you have just done, but it is a much, much easier and less stressful option than either of the other two. Being an MP is these peoples livelihood, if my job was on the line in the manner of the first one I'd be bricking it. And we all know what the likes of Jess Phillips has suffered for going down route two.

At the end of the day, part of the job of any leader in any organisation is that when the shit hits the fan, they take the hit. Obviously that isn't always the case, there are a few bank CEOs who managed to get away with it, and Rebekah Brooks also springs to mind, but by and large when you're the head honcho, you also carry the can. Captain goes down with his ship and all that. Miliband realised that and was prepared to take the shit thrown at him personally. I have yet to be convinced Corbyn is so minded.
Last edited by bluebellnutter on Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#477577
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Can she? The Lords would block repeal.
Well, not sure about that, but she could also engineer a two thirds majority in the commons on a motion that there shall be an early election. No opposition could credibly vote against such a motion.
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