[mikey mikey]

Just to be clear does this mean we shouldn't criticise Corbyn?

Not publically for the next few months if we are to stand a chance of getting it through to some very thick heads that 'coup plotters' are not the problem. Faint praise perhaps; "Everyone deserves a second chance and so does poor old Jeremy."

As i said earlier: I think Ian means "hope for failure, anticipate success".

[Daley Mayle]

Frankly there is no future for moderates like me Ian, Corbyn's going to change the rules giving more power to the members, Mps will be deselected across, Corbyn will use the boundary review to push mandatory reselection, he'll change the party so that the left will dominate as it recedes into becoming an irrelevance to British politics. Corbyn doesn't want unity he and his allies will provoke and provoke moderates into disagreeing with them and when they object they'll make sure they get the blame when things go wrong.

That's a Good Thing, isn't it? You're a member and you'll get more power. I suppose it's a Bad Thing if the majority of members want to take the party in a different direction to the party you joined, but that's democracy. A political party is not a fixed state, it changes to reflect those who hold power within it and Corbyn is controlling that direction. You have two options, one to go along with the flow or leave and join a centrist party or create one that more suits your political opinion. What would be a waste of your time and energy is to be the sore loser who spends the rest of their life complaining.

[Daley Mayle]

Either that or find a grassy knoll...

[The Weeping Angel]

It's not about democracy Daley it's about power, by giving the membership more of a say he undermines his opponents in the PLP and on the NEC. He's using the power of the mob.

[youngian]

That's a Good Thing, isn't it? You're a member and you'll get more power.

I don't want more power I prefer to give a mandate to those I trust to know what they are doing. This year has shown how crappy direct democracy is. It either just throws up new questions and dilemmas instead of easy answers. Or in the case of Corbyn the electorate is a rubber stamp rentamob for the caudillo. Unfortunately for Jez you can't be Simon Bolivar or Chavez in a parliamentary system.

[bluebellnutter]

I would argue farming responsibility for things out is fine if it didn't have the whiff, which to me, this does, of a leader trying to shirk the work so they can pontificate and ramble on without having to do the hard "leader-y" stuff.

[youngian]

I want the right to elect Gary Kasparov to play the chess game on my behalf but I don't expect him to ask me where to move his bishop. And if he did he's definitely not up to the job. There are those who believe it's patronising to suggest Gary knows it all and are far far cleverer than me because they are qualified to tell Gary where to move his knight. I believe these are the people Dunning and Kruger studied.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yeah, just on stuff I know about, I find the knowledge of "campaigners" less than impressive. Lots of them seriously think that government funding of rail has quadrupled because private companies are keeping all the money.

Blairite technocrat Andrew Adonis was good on rail (wish he'd been there all the time, not Education). Lots of Keynsian borrowing for investment during the slump too.

[youngian]

Corbyn rightly defended Brown over the banking crisis on Marr (in hindsight Ed M should have done but I wrongly agreed with the policy of not explaining and moving on ) but he didn't even mention the open goal of the B0E's Brexit QE programme of £120bn and rising. Hasn't he even learned that voters don't like big scary numbers? You would think best friend and ally John McDonnell would have briefed him. Meanwhile, I heard Len McCluskey on the news urging the PLP to give Jeremy a break so we can measure his popularity with the public. That sounds like the sort of thing I'm saying. Well done Len, all hail Caesar this is going to get interesting.

[visage]

If Corbyn endures another 12 months of unconstructive whinging he'll have zero success fighting the Tories.

If he gets 12 months of support from the whole Labour movement he might have some success.

Its hard to envisage how someone can claim to want whats best for the country while endorsing the former.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

What will you be doing to ensure success?

[visage]

Depends - how many leaflets does one need to push through doors before you're allowed to state the bleeding obvious?

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I just thought you could tutor us with your example of real-life activism.
Will you be delivering leaflets?

[Tubby Isaacs]

I want the right to elect Gary Kasparov to play the chess game on my behalf but I don't expect him to ask me where to move his bishop. And if he did he's definitely not up to the job. There are those who believe it's patronising to suggest Gary knows it all and are far far cleverer than me because they are qualified to tell Gary where to move his knight. I believe these are the people Dunning and Kruger studied.

To be fair to Corbyn, the "grassroots" stuff could mean anything.

I'm worries about it. Nukes can lose the election on their own. As for Universal Basic Income, Jeez.

[youngian]

If Corbyn endures another 12 months of unconstructive whinging he'll have zero success fighting the Tories.

If he gets 12 months of support from the whole Labour movement he might have some success.

I agree, I want the the PLP to back off and give Corbyn their full support.

If this happens how high do you expect Corbyn's poll ratings will climb? For a saviour of the working class like Corbyn I predict it will be at least 85%. So let's all get behind him and make it happen.

As for Universal Basic Income, Jeez.

It's a great idea that pragmatic and idealist politicians have spent 50 years trying to reframe so it doesn't sound like free cider money for Benefit Street; Negative income tax, child benefit and tax credits for example.