Topics about the Labour Party
:sunglasses: 58.3 % ❤ 2.9 % :thumbsup: 15.7 % 😯 1.5 % :grinning: 18.1 % 🧥 1 % 🙏 0.5 % 😟 1 % :cry: 1 %
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By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#634628
If you look at any of the usual suspects - Rachel Swindon, Skwawkbox etc, - it's relentless. They're far, far more concerned about damaging Starmer and getting him out in any way possible than doing anything about the Tories. Just constant, constant sniping and undermining. The classic I saw the other day was - in the same string of tweets - a straight-faced tweet about Labour's policies and leadership leading to the stunning 2017 election result (where, you may recall, Labour came 2nd against the 2nd-worst PM this country has ever seen who ran probably the worst campaign this country has ever seen), followed by a tweet claiming it was Starmer's fault the 2019 election was lost because he pushed Corbyn towards a more remain-aligned position.

Complete obliviousness to the data showing the 2017 result was down to tactival voting and the hated centrist dads coming out for Labour vs May's brexit policies despite Corbyn, and then the 2019 result - with the party machinery then entirely Corbyn-chosen - being down to woeful ineptitude coupled with 2 years of goodwill squandering, and a confused, clumsy referendum promise coupled with a confused, clumsy manifesto of everything for everyone whether they want or need it.

It's like looking at the most insane religon. Nothing bad is their fault. Everything good is their doing.
oboogie liked this
 
By Boiler
Posts
#634631
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:08 pm
[...] followed by a tweet claiming it was Starmer's fault the 2019 election was lost because he pushed Corbyn towards a more remain-aligned position.
In some cases, that's not far off the mark. From a poster in Stoke-on-Trent on another forum, whom I believe is a former Labour voter;
Labour lost over Brexit. Getting that out of the way will allow Starmer to work on it but he was part of the problem with Labour and I doubt people will forget that. He has a chance but I think he's a long way off at the moment but Boris may drive people back there. His Brexit deal, and for some months all the broken deadlines from both sides, look more likely to drive votes to Farage. Labour has long been losing its support as it turned into a metropolitan party.
 
By davidjay
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#634632
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:08 pm
If you look at any of the usual suspects - Rachel Swindon, Skwawkbox etc, - it's relentless. They're far, far more concerned about damaging Starmer and getting him out in any way possible than doing anything about the Tories. Just constant, constant sniping and undermining. The classic I saw the other day was - in the same string of tweets - a straight-faced tweet about Labour's policies and leadership leading to the stunning 2017 election result (where, you may recall, Labour came 2nd against the 2nd-worst PM this country has ever seen who ran probably the worst campaign this country has ever seen), followed by a tweet claiming it was Starmer's fault the 2019 election was lost because he pushed Corbyn towards a more remain-aligned position.

Complete obliviousness to the data showing the 2017 result was down to tactival voting and the hated centrist dads coming out for Labour vs May's brexit policies despite Corbyn, and then the 2019 result - with the party machinery then entirely Corbyn-chosen - being down to woeful ineptitude coupled with 2 years of goodwill squandering, and a confused, clumsy referendum promise coupled with a confused, clumsy manifesto of everything for everyone whether they want or need it.

It's like looking at the most insane religon. Nothing bad is their fault. Everything good is their doing.
And it would be laughable if it wasn't threatening lives, because we should never forget the sole reason for Labour's existence. Under a Labour government rich people are still rich. Under a Conservative government poor people die.
oboogie liked this
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#634639
The Weeping Angel wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:59 pm
I notice the Corbynites are now trying to accuse Starmer of undermining the education unions.

Hasn't Keir been twisting and turning on schools since his no ifs or buts call for kids to go back? He hasn't sounded consistent or coherent to me.
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#634645
Boiler wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:21 pm
In some cases, that's not far off the mark. From a poster in Stoke-on-Trent on another forum, whom I believe is a former Labour voter;
But it's *wildly* off the mark. Labour's problem has been that under Corbyn they were neither here nor there because he wanted brexit, had to vaguely go remain because that was anti-Tory, and the case for remain was never really made because the leadership was so weak. If Starmer hadn't dragged Corbyn away from being openly leave Labour would have suffered an even greater defeat in 2019 as they would have campaigned on leave but leaving with Corbyn's version of a unicorn deal. He was only part of the problem in as much as he actually managed to persuade Corbyn to listen to him and not Len fucking McCluskey.

Labour did lose over brexit, but because the leader in charge of them whenever anything could be done about it never wanted to have to make a difficult decision, or compromise, or listen. So he pretended it wasn't really happening.
oboogie liked this
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#634646
In fairness, "back to school, no excuses" was also about what the government needed to do to open safely. That wasn't the problem. But the last few days hasn't been convincing. I accept that there are genuine experts who think schools don't make all that much difference to hospitaizations, and that the cost of them being closed is too high (that's the difference between schools and zoos, Labour wasn't saying zoos were more dangerous than schools). But if you think that. stick with it, don't change positions just to get a few hours ahead of the government.
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#634651
Yeah, I think there have been a few open goals the last few days where Starmer could easily have made a very vaild point that would have gone over very well with the majority of the public with a quick statement - backing teaching unions, calling for the lockdown even earlier etc. It does seem to have been oddly quiet the last few days, as if there's something else going on that's a distraction.
Tubby Isaacs liked this
 
By Oblomov
Posts
#634655
youngian wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:40 pm
The Weeping Angel wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:59 pm
I notice the Corbynites are now trying to accuse Starmer of undermining the education unions.

Hasn't Keir been twisting and turning on schools since his no ifs or buts call for kids to go back? He hasn't sounded consistent or coherent to me.
I agree that he seems to have gotten in a tangle over it, possibly chasing a populist dragon of parents being more immediately concerned about putting food on the table than the risks of the virus ergo he was gung ho for kids to go back in without giving much discussion to the myriad of issues (guaranteeing staff safety, contingency plans, support for parents who are uneasy with sending their kids in, what happens with exams etc.)

It's precarious for his image because I think rather than coming across as the reasonable adult in the room, he'll morph into that fussy overzealous disciplinarian we all knew at school, constantly shifting goalposts to maintain a stance of dissatisfied criticism.
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#634657
I think the difficulty is that his position is both correct and wrong. He's correct schools should be open, but only if they're safe. So I'm guessing the idea was to make this point - that if you do want to open them, and opening them is the right thing to do if you can, you have to do the testing work and the vaccination work to make it possible and it's THAT where the tories are sorely lacking. But the line hasn't been clearly drawn, and so it now looks like it was calls to open schools regardless which then switched to calls to close schools.

Hopefully now they ARE closed, the messaging can be cleaned up a bit. The "contract with the British people" about using lockdown to do mass vaccination is solid and an easy thing to hold Johnson to, so that's a good start.
oboogie, Oblomov liked this
By mattomac
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#634673
Personally on most things he has been right, he was right to say the rush to open everything up was a concern, the circuit breaker may or may not have worked but it was probably the best thing to try, he lambasted that track and trace system took until October to be fully in place.

Remember the previous lockdown, Corbyn said nothing for the entire month. As for the 20 points ahead bullshit, well he has already made up 25 points in 7 months to the point in which Labour now tend to have small leads in the polls.
 
By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#634681
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:09 pm
In fairness, "back to school, no excuses" was also about what the government needed to do to open safely. That wasn't the problem. But the last few days hasn't been convincing. I accept that there are genuine experts who think schools don't make all that much difference to hospitaizations, and that the cost of them being closed is too high (that's the difference between schools and zoos, Labour wasn't saying zoos were more dangerous than schools). But if you think that. stick with it, don't change positions just to get a few hours ahead of the government.
I saw a number of arseholes on twitter going on about that, as if Starmer was priorizing closing zoos over school and this proves he's a poor leader.
Tubby Isaacs liked this
 
By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#634698
Oh and these wankers can piss off as well.



I'm reminded of something Orwell once said that some socialists are more ashamed of standing for the national anthem than of stealing from a poor box.
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