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Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:59 pm
by Boiler
Indeed. I know there's a school of thought that says "never interrupt your enemy whilst he's making a mistake" but the 'enemy' is killing hundreds of people a day whilst lining the pockets of its mates with riches that would embarrass Croesus - how long do you wait before saying "okay, enough"?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:35 pm
by bluebellnutter
Attacking the Government right now is a bad idea given it's popular because it's managed to avoid cocking up the vaccine rollout. There's "not interrupting your enemy when he's making a mistake" and there's "heckling the comedian when they've bought the house down".

Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:38 pm
by Malcolm Armsteen
Tu as raison, vieux!

Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:19 pm
by The Weeping Angel
bluebellnutter wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:35 pm
Attacking the Government right now is a bad idea given it's popular because it's managed to avoid cocking up the vaccine rollout. There's "not interrupting your enemy when he's making a mistake" and there's "heckling the comedian when they've bought the house down".
Also what does calling for Hancock's resignation actually achieve? If Hancock does resign he gets replaced chances are he gets replaced by a lockdown sceptic so we end up with someone like Rees-Mogg taking over.


Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:22 pm
by oboogie
The Tories are riding high, vaccines are rolling out and Brexit food shortages have yet to materialise.
Johnson is world beating and achieving everything the naysayers and doomongers said was impossible. Nothing would suit BOJO - KING OF THE WORLD more:

"Typical of Comrade Starmer to start talking the country down in his usual unpatriotic, Socialist way.
Chap doesn't even have a flag in his videos...that's how much he hates YOU.
Isn't Starmer a Jewish name? Sounds a bit Jew-ish!!
Brother Starmervitch is all defeatist now we've given him a taste of our BRITISH spunk and he doesn't like it up him, oh no! Well, yah boo sucks to you Comrade Eeyore!"

"Now, who wants to hear about my magic roundabout on the Isle of Man? Tally-ho!!"

Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:06 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
The Weeping Angel wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:19 pm

I don't have a problem with these cases, but we shouldn't make too much of them. Attack the government for spending money on lawyers losing cases, that's fine. And say "they need to make sure all contracts are published on time in the future".

One thing in Starmer's favour is that he will know what the case is about. I'm wondering whether some of the "proper opposition" critics know that.

I mean, I get that she's angry about other things that have happened, but good luck at persuading the electorate that publishing contracts 17 days late crosses a major line.




Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:17 pm
by youngian
Also what does calling for Hancock's resignation actually achieve? If Hancock does resign he gets replaced chances are he gets replaced by a lockdown sceptic so we end up with someone like Rees-Mogg taking over.

Starmer’s in danger of feeding perceptions that the ‘Westminster elites’ are covering each other’s backs. There’s already enough material to begin an on-going narrative of sleazy Tories up to their old tricks again. A national emergency isn’t a free pass for unlawful behaviour and dodgy dealings. It makes it worse.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:36 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
Right, but that's not what this case looked at.

Rachel Reeves has been leading on the cronyism charges. Maybe Starmer should do more of that himself, I suppose.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:46 pm
by Boiler
oboogie wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:22 pm
The Tories are riding high, vaccines are rolling out and Brexit food shortages have yet to materialise.
Johnson is world beating and achieving everything the naysayers and doomongers said was impossible. Nothing would suit BOJO - KING OF THE WORLD more:

"Typical of Comrade Starmer to start talking the country down in his usual unpatriotic, Socialist way.
Chap doesn't even have a flag in his videos...that's how much he hates YOU.
Isn't Starmer a Jewish name? Sounds a bit Jew-ish!!
Brother Starmervitch is all defeatist now we've given him a taste of our BRITISH spunk and he doesn't like it up him, oh no! Well, yah boo sucks to you Comrade Eeyore!"

"Now, who wants to hear about my magic roundabout on the Isle of Man? Tally-ho!!"
Yep - good points well made.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:12 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
"Get this bastard out, he didn't publish contracts quick enough!" would look like middle management box ticking to the public.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:53 am
by youngian
Despite reservations, I’m fairly relaxed about Starmer’s Hancock resignation stance. He looks like a man more serious about governing than protesting. It should be a temporary pass for the Tories until the pandemic passes. Then I want Tory sleaze back on Labour’s agenda. There’s so much ammo to keep it going.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:42 pm
by Oblomov
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:12 pm
"Get this bastard out, he didn't publish contracts quick enough!" would look like middle management box ticking to the public.
I agree, when unfriendly media brand you with a certain perception it is very hard to shake off and I constantly fear Starmer being too negative and reminding the nation of broomstick-up-arse fusspot schoolmasters that are only satisfied when complaining about something.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:22 am
by crabcakes_windermere
I have to admit I think Starmer could do with a bit more oomph. I understand the not bringing up Brexit, and the caution about attacking Johnson too much while the vaccine rollout is happening, but there are plenty of entirely safe lines of attack - the dodgy contracts being the most obvious - and cases to be made about how the success of vaccination is because the NHS did it and not Serco.

His team are great and making a good impact, and he regularly riles Johnson at PMQs so can clearly get under his skin. But the rest of the time it's like he's waiting for something before really getting going, but I don't know what that is. He's not bad - we've seen bad all too recently for any sensible person to think another Corbyn wouldn't be dramatically worse. He's made huge strides in repairing the damage, and is out doing an awful lot of groundwork. But he needs to be more visibly scoring goals, and more visibly *less* reasonable when the opportunity arises to be justifiably angry, or it won't be him who ultimately benefits from the foundations he's shoring up.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:51 am
by youngian
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:22 am
I have to admit I think Starmer could do with a bit more oomph. I understand the not bringing up Brexit, and the caution about attacking Johnson too much while the vaccine rollout is happening, but there are plenty of entirely safe lines of attack - the dodgy contracts being the most obvious - and cases to be made about how the success of vaccination is because the NHS did it and not Serco.

None of this bothers Shaun Bailey who attacks Khan daily on everything from Covid to dog shit. His poll numbers are lousy and has made no dent to Khan's popularity (despite empty coffers and fare increases). So perhaps Keir's on to something.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:58 am
by Tubby Isaacs
This is what proper opposition looks like, or something.

If Trickett's ever a minister and his department lose a judicial review on something, we know what to do with him.