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Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:41 am
by Esqui
Forcing people to work for benefits would surely just put more people out of work. There wouldn't be enough to work to go around for paid employees, so they'd be laid off, people would leave without being replaced, etc. Gaps would be filled by the unemployed to save money, fewer people would be on a decent wage; that means fewer people with money to spend, which means less work is needed, and the whole thing keeps going until there's barely anyone in employment.

Plus, if I were less scrupulous, being on constant week/two-week work placements somewhere I have no ties to might make me more likely to dip into tills. An extra £5 here and there would barely be noticed - and by the time anyone realised, I'd be gone.

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:23 am
by Malcolm Armsteen
Spot on.
And a workforce on zero (almost) wages means reduced consumer demand, depression, slump and vastly increased unemployment, leading to falling consumer demand etc.

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:02 am
by Andy McDandy
Not to mention that lower confidence and stability lead to lower consumer spending (well, part from at Oddbins and Bargain Booze).

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:05 am
by Malcolm Armsteen
Hasn't Oddbins gone bust? Our local one has gone.

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:10 am
by new puritan
Of course you can prop up consumption by funnelling credit at potless consumers (hello, Wonga). But that will eventually go tits up.

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:52 pm
by Daley Mayle
Should zero hours contracts become more widespread it will hit the housing market because the chance of getting a mortgage is unlikely. Ditto, renting. A landlord will want to know whether you can afford the rent and wouldn't be impressed by the potential variability of income that comes with zero hours. And there's more. Credit scores can be driven right down just by a missed minimum payment to, say, a credit card or a mobile contract and possibly for the want of £50. All you need is a bad couple of months and your credit worthiness would be junk status. What to do? Ah, Wonga to tide you over...

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:00 pm
by D.C. Harrison
It really is the road to misery, isn't it?

"Shit, only got 20 hours this week. How will I pay the rent? Guess Wonga it is... should be able to pay it back next week."

<skip forward seven days>

"Shit, only got 15 hours this week... how will I pay the rent? And the electricity bill? And Wonga back?"

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:40 pm
by Daley Mayle
Probably explains the foot dragging over dealing with the pay day companies. They are a lender of last resort.

Mind you, banks take usury to a new level. Overdraw beyond the facility by a few pence and they can hit you with £30 fine even if the account is put back in credit within a day. Replace 'fine' with 'interest' then you have an annual percentage that would make Wonga blush.

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:23 pm
by Kreuzberger
I see/hear that the BBC is today wall-to-wall with the indignation of Matthew Sinclair. Something about a shilling for plastic bags.

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:53 pm
by shyamz
Like he can't afford to pay for his plastic bags anyway.

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:33 pm
by Esqui
Before I read it, a fiver says the words "stealth tax" are used.

Also, I don't really understand what the Taxpayer's Alliance have to do with this anyway? It's a 5p charge for plastic bags. It can be avoided by reusing bags. The proceeds go to charity. It's got nothing to do with tax or paying tax.

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:45 pm
by shyamz
I don't think anything has to have something to do with the TPA for them to get involved. They behave like a Z-List reality show celebrity - terrified that if they don't do anything to draw attention to themselves and don't keep talking that people will forget they exist (which in the case of the Tax Payer's Alliance would be no bad thing).

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:57 pm
by Malcolm Armsteen
There was a vox pop on the Beeb earlier.
Young man with vacant eyes outside a Sainsbury's local speKing his bRanEs says that he can't see that 5p will make much of a difference to the environment...

Feck. Unpack that. He sees the world so much in terms of himself that he can't even comprehend that other people will pay the 5p charge as well, millions of times, so the money going to charity will, at first, be considerable. It's only about him. That sums up the TPA, does it not.

I know for a fact that Sainsbury locals sell little foldaway bags for £1. So the 21st time he uses it he's in profit, plus he's got a little bag for other occasions...

When I'm in France I don't have the choice - no bags in the supermarkets - so I make the huge intellectual leap to - wait for it - take a bag with me! In fact, just like I do in England. Of course it's so hard that I have to lie down with a copy of the Express over my head afterwards.

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:59 pm
by Abernathy
Kreuzberger wrote:I see/hear that the BBC is today wall-to-wall with the indignation of Matthew Sinclair. Something about a shilling for plastic bags.
Yes, I heard a TPA cunt, it may well have been Sinclair, talking about the placcy bag charge a couple of hours ago. He did, indeed, characterise it as a "tax", and whinge pitifully about the answer to placcy bag pollution not being yet another coercive tax on hard pressed taxpayers.

Yes, he was doing that in the face of actual hard evidence from real life situations in Wales, Scotland, and NI, and even in England (M&S, Lidl, Aldi) that the bag charge is possibly THE mist effective way of reducing the number of plastic bags out there damaging the environment EVER.

Honestly, being a totally thick, selfish cunt must be a pre-condition of being a TPA member.

Re: The Taxpayer's Alliance

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:03 pm
by Abernathy
And another thing, obviously good idea as it is, that Clegg has been thrown a bone by being allowed to announce it at the Lib Dem conference because the Tories don't give a fuck about it is painfully transparent.