Winegums wrote: ↑
Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:41 pm
Oblomov wrote: ↑
Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:12 am
Winegums wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:08 pm
My point is saying someone's good for sticking to their guns, rather than caring about what their actual issue is, is pretty damning by faint praise. Thatcher stuck to her guns too.
So why is it when Jezza does it we're to view him as a man of conviction and believe in his vision but a group like ChangeUK is to regarded with contempt and cynicism for they are obviously doing it for their own self interest?
Because when Corbyn's held his ground, as with when he's defied the whip, it's been over things like privatising the NHS, Iraq etc. It's not the act of defiance which makes you a winner it's whether you were right.
Also, I notice that your criticisms of ChUK have been mainly skewed towards the Labour portion (and attempting to disprove their reasoning that they can no longer abide by growing antisemitism amongst the ranks) but you've said little on the Tories that joined who are rebelling against poor Brexit policy. Is there any particular reason for that?
Because Change UK (The Independent Group).peoplesvotenow#FBPE(2) are inherently comedic and dumb and taking them seriously is futile. Like whoever upthread suggested they'd made some sort of mark on politics is clearly taking the piss, because obviously a party which got 1% of the vote will change politics as much as Liz Kendall changed the direction of the Labour Party, or DRUGSTORE_CULTURE changed the face of journalism.
Okay but my point wasn't about winning, it was about integrity of position which you can't seem to begrudge any to ChangeUK but have an abundance of admiration for Jezza's slacktivism, which as time goes on seems to become worryingly blurred with virtue signalling than genuinely heartfelt.
But say it is about defying the whip for the sake of what's right, then surely ChangeUK deserve a smidgen of praise for taking a stand against Corbyn over injustices he's ignored in his own party or a bullheaded stubborness over Brexit which will be a disaster for the country short and medium, possibly even long term, but it fits his worldview so naysayers be damned (and it's not like he will live long enough to endure the hardships that come with such an economic downturn, nor he will be uncomfortable during transition phase he'll be alive for).
Maybe in a macro sense ChangeUK will be but a footnote in history but I will certainly remember the time the leadership of the main parties was so poor MPs from both sides felt obliged (and confident enough) to meet in the middle and try to thrash out an alternative.