Political talk from outside of the UK
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By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#515848
As batshit mental as Trump is, I still don't think he will push the nuke button in a moment of madness one night when he's got bored with firing off arsey tweets. Presumably there will be people to oversee this and keep him away from it.

Not sure about the other fella though, but it wouldn't be in his interests either as anything like this would blow apart the fantasy Bond villain world he runs.
 
By Safe_Timber_Man
Membership Days Posts
#515850
Nah, Trump won't nuke or bomb them in any way, I don't think. Or at least, he wouldn't make the first move.

Kim Jong Un also knows full well it would be the end of his regime, life and country if he made a move so I don't think he'll do anything, either. He's achieved what he wanted from this already. In his peoples eyes, he's stood up to the big bully and made him back down. He's a strong leader protecting his country etc etc.

The only way the shit will hit the fan is if the US make it look like they're going to strike. Clumsy training drill or an excessive show of force, or something. Then N.Korea may possibly make a preemptive strike.

Other than that it's just muscle flexing and each leader trying to look big in front of his people. I actually think Kim Jong Un has got the better of Trump on this one.

I still don't quite understand where China stands, though, and whether they'd risk their trade/economy just for N.Korea. Although, despite the sheer power of US, I really don't think China is the least bit scared of them. And Russia? No idea where they stand in terms of whether they'd defend N.Korea. I wouldn't want to test it.
 
By Safe_Timber_Man
Membership Days Posts
#515852
That would be a seriously bloody war...not that all war isn't bloody.

China make me nervous. They're more about trade, money and manufacturing and (I don't think) are really interested in war. I do get the impression, though, that if pushed or they feel their prosperity is being put under threat they would unleash fucking hell very quickly without any notice. They have a quietly confident sense about them.
 
By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Posts
#515873
China and India won't go to war. For three very good reasons.

1. They aren't direct rivals. China looks to the Pacific and Russia, India to the Middle East and Indian Ocean.
2. There is little history of animosity owing to a certain, rather large mountain range between the two keeping them apart (even the most advanced army in the world right now would find it impossible to cross the Himalayas).
3. It is in neither countries interests to start a conflict.

I would urge everyone to go and read "Prisoners of Geography" by Tim Marshall. Brilliant book which will open your eyes to geopolitics and why conflicts you thought might happen won't and those you would never dream of might.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Prisoners-Geog ... +geography" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trump also won't start a nuclear conflagration. I don't picture him as someone who fancies crawling out of his bunker and having to survive as a subsistence farmer in a mud hut somewhere.
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#515881
I agree, at this stage its just a dick measuring contest between two idiots, both of which would have a massive amount to lose if it got out of hand. The contest, that is, not the dick(s)

Incidentally, the only country in the world which has ever actually used nuclear weapons in war is the one which is now outraged that North Korea has now got them. They would probably have had the shit bombed out of them by now if they hadn't. I always think its ironic that the Yanks like to go playing at Team America World Police all the time when its them who are responsible for most of the shit that goes on in the first place.
Last edited by mr angry manchester on Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#515882
bluebellnutter wrote:China and India won't go to war. For three very good reasons.

1. They aren't direct rivals. China looks to the Pacific and Russia, India to the Middle East and Indian Ocean.
2. There is little history of animosity owing to a certain, rather large mountain range between the two keeping them apart (even the most advanced army in the world right now would find it impossible to cross the Himalayas).
3. It is in neither countries interests to start a conflict.
There was a Sino-Indian war in 1962 which I was just looking up. Non-aligned India had relations with the Soviet Union and the West and was not a good idea to attack them. But it seems China made their move when the world was distracted
It is noteworthy that the buildup and offensive from China occurred concurrently with the 13-day Cuban Missile Crisis (16–28 October 1962) that saw both the United States and the Soviet Union confronting each other, and India did not receive assistance from either of these world powers until the Cuban Missile Crisis was resolved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#515883
You could say the same about Russia too, Hungary 1956 was when the distraction of Suez was going on, and Czechoslovakia 1968 was concurrent with the crisis in France with the student riots, in addition to Vietnam.
 
By lord_kobel
Membership Days Posts
#515888
bluebellnutter wrote: I don't picture him as someone who fancies crawling out of his bunker and having to survive as a subsistence farmer in a mud hut somewhere.
Do you really think he can still think that far ahead? The cockrot got to his brain long ago...
 
By Arnold
Membership Days Posts
#515892
Everybody seems to be taking what Kim says at face value. All we know is that NK has done a few underground nuke tests and test fired some missiles. Which doesn't mean that he has nuclear missiles or if he does, that they are accurate. Guam is a very small target.
What is certain is that the US has the ability to destroy his launch sites even with conventional bombs and missiles.
 
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Posts
#515894
mr angry manchester wrote:You could say the same about Russia too, Hungary 1956 was when the distraction of Suez was going on, and Czechoslovakia 1968 was concurrent with the crisis in France with the student riots, in addition to Vietnam.
Czech rising was January 1968, Paris was May.

Funny thing about that was I had a French teacher who was at the Sorbonne in 1968 and when we asked her of her memories, she said "I was too busy studying", and that she didn't really notice the riots. She said it was very much a "If you can remember the 60s..." thing, only applicable to the 200-odd people who were actually 'there'.
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#515895
Sorry, make allowances, I was only 8 in 68!

I was more interested in getting Dad to take me to Bury Knowsley Street and Bolton Street stations to watch the last few steam locos on British Railways at that time as they finished in August 68!! :D
 
By Littlejohn's brain
Membership Days Posts
#515962
Fuck him.

https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/16138896/ ... many-sides" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
White nationalists rallied in Charlottesville, Virginia, this weekend against the removal of Confederate statues in public spaces. White nationalists attacked counter-protesters on Friday night, punching and kicking them and (reportedly) pepper-spraying them. One counter-protester was killed and several were injured when a car rammed into them after accelerating for over a block.

President Trump blamed both sides.

In a statement read before a scheduled bill signing for the Department of Veterans Affairs, he did everything but say “All Lives Matter” to avoid talking about who had perpetrated the violence. And he left plenty of opportunity for people who are inclined to assume that the problem lay with counterprotesters to do just that.

Here is how the president began his statement:
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#515963
President Trump blamed both sides.
Hmm. Do we know what the party line is on the Tories selling weapons to Venezuela; Bad neoliberalism or socialist solidarity? Trump is now making demented threats to invade Venezuela so Jez is off the hook if that happens. I hope Maduro makes full use British engineering excellence.
 
By AOB
Membership Days Posts
#515969
The Governor has been much clearer in his condemnation.
Mr McAuliffe told a press conference: "I have a message for all the white supremacists, and the Nazis who came into Charlottesville today. Our message is plain and simple: Go home. You are not wanted in this great commonwealth. Shame on you. You pretend that you're patriots, but you are anything but a patriot.
"You came here today to hurt people. And you did hurt people. But my message is clear: We are stronger than you."
Showing more leadership and clarity in a few sentences than the President has done in half a year.
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