Page 15 of 18

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:17 am
by KevS
It does indeed, however, initially, it looks like Bones' prediction above is coming true - Mattis has described it as a "one-time hit", and it's obvious that the Russians were given a heads up through the back channels, no weapons went anywhere near Russian bases, and they didn't launch any missile defences themselves.

Yes, the Russians are saying "there will be consequences", but they've got to say that, as after days of acting like they have, they're not going to turn round and say "Oh well, that's alright then". On the other hand, I suspect it'll just be diplomatic consequences. I'm fairly confident I haven't got to shelter from bits of radioactive Glasgow falling from the sky just yet.

Trump gets to swan around looking like John Wayne for a few days (which will make some wonder if he and Vlad have arranged the whole thing to make him look tough), and here? There's going to be a bit of a row.

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:28 am
by youngian
Few objected to Trump sending military support to those fighting ISIS so its not knee-jerk to question his motives for Operation Desert Stormy. And I didn't hear Theresa May say she was signed up for this if true


Hezbollah confirmed that they have moved their forces out of Syria so the US may have struck an empty building.

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:12 am
by Big Arnold
Against.
I think we are still haunted by WW1 when poison gas was a feared WOMD. It wasn't used in WW2 as everyone had a gas mask, and it's killed a very very small proportion of those killed by Assad's forces. The only possible end to the civil war is an Assad victory, and degrading his forces will delay its end, without reducing overall casualties.
The Russians are fighting with Assad against the "official" rebels. We are fighting with Assad against ISIS, while attacking his military assets. The Turks are fighting the Kurds for their own reasons.
Angus May must be grateful for the opportunity to divert attention from her domestic problems.

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:45 am
by youngian
I'm ambivalent about this raid at it is totemic, clumsily executed by Trump for domestic reasons and will not change the course of this war (which isn't the objective anyway). The next move is more important as Assad should be indicted for war crimes. Like Serbia, it may be in the interest of a future Ba'athist regime to hand him and others over if the country is in the grip of sanctions.

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:07 am
by Bones McCoy
youngian wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:45 am
I'm ambivalent about this raid at it is totemic, clumsily executed by Trump for domestic reasons and will not change the course of this war (which isn't the objective anyway). The next move is more important as Assad should be indicted for war crimes. Like Serbia, it may be in the interest of a future Ba'athist regime to hand him and others over if the country is in the grip of sanctions.
I can't recall anybody form a winning side ever getting handed over it's losing (Gadaffi) or the treaties following a score-draw (Milošević).

There are always a few "safe exiles" where they can see out their twilight years.
The power of the indictment is to seriously restrict where the dictator and his/her money can easily travel.
* Amin - Saudi.
* Shah Palavi - Egypt, Morocco, USA, Egypt.
* Marcos - USA.
* Mobutu - Morocco.
* Kaiser Bill - Netherlands.
* Napoleon III - England.
* Pinochet - England.

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:41 am
by The Weeping Angel
Arnold wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:12 am
Against.
I think we are still haunted by WW1 when poison gas was a feared WOMD. It wasn't used in WW2 as everyone had a gas mask, and it's killed a very very small proportion of those killed by Assad's forces. The only possible end to the civil war is an Assad victory, and degrading his forces will delay its end, without reducing overall casualties.
The Russians are fighting with Assad against the "official" rebels. We are fighting with Assad against ISIS, while attacking his military assets. The Turks are fighting the Kurds for their own reasons.
Angus May must be grateful for the opportunity to divert attention from her domestic problems.
Oh look it's Simon Jenkins.

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:43 am
by The Weeping Angel
youngian wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:28 am
Few objected to Trump sending military support to those fighting ISIS so its not knee-jerk to question his motives for Operation Desert Stormy. And I didn't hear Theresa May say she was signed up for this if true


Hezbollah confirmed that they have moved their forces out of Syria so the US may have struck an empty building.
Fuck him.

Oh yeah


Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:07 pm
by The Weeping Angel
Andrew Rawnsley sums it up for me.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... le-strikes
Less honest, not least with themselves, are the self-proclaimed peace-lovers. Mainly to be found on the hand-wringing left, they are too busy looking in the mirror admiring their own halos to face the moral challenges posed by a situation like Syria. Jeremy Corbyn opposes this weekend’s action on the grounds that it “risks escalating further” what is “an already devastating conflict”. The Labour leader and those who share his worldview are consistent. Do nothing has been their unvaried policy for the past seven years of carnage. There is no doubt that they can expect support from a lot of a domestic electorate turned allergic to engaging with abroad, especially the Middle East.

As the non-interventionists have preached inaction, the death toll in Syria has been remorselessly – what’s the word, Jeremy? – escalated by the Assad regime and its allies. Whenever pressed to say what they would do, the non-interventionists fall back on calling for “negotiations” and more effort at the United Nations. They have to be aware that Russia has repeatedly used its security council veto to shield Assad from any effective action by the UN, most recently by blocking an independent investigation into the chemical attack on Douma. While the non-interventionists have talked about talking, the Assad regime and its backers in the Kremlin and Iran have been free to go on killing.

Interventionists have been rightly obliged to own all that went horribly wrong in Iraq. Non-interventionists, the horrors of Syria are on you.

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:52 pm
by spoonman
Interventionists have been rightly obliged to own all that went horribly wrong in Iraq. Non-interventionists, the horrors of Syria are on you.
What a load of bollocks.

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:18 pm
by Andy McDandy
LJB, this is not Poland in 1939. This is, to paraphrase Sean Connery, farting into a thunderstorm, in an attempt to look tough while actually doing fuck all except burn money while everyone dances around and the already fucked get a little more fucked.

And aside from when I wash them, I don't wring my hands. Horrible cliche from the Dacre stable.

Personally I'd say the best thing we can do with Syria is bomb the place flat and kill everyone as a blessed relief, and then turn it into a car park for people visiting Beirut.

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:23 pm
by The Red Arrow
It's got sod all to do with Syria and everything to do with disagreeing with Corbyn - whatever the subjrct.

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:45 pm
by The Weeping Angel
The Red Arrow wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:23 pm
It's got sod all to do with Syria and everything to do with disagreeing with Corbyn - whatever the subjrct.
No it hasn't.

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:48 pm
by The Red Arrow
Yes it has.

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:50 pm
by The Weeping Angel
The Red Arrow wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:48 pm
Yes it has.
Believe it or not I don't disagree with Corbyn on everything.

Re: Meanwhile, in Syria

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:55 pm
by The Red Arrow
Do enlighten us.